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Old 11-13-2012, 06:42 PM   #1
Derickonfire
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An easy Q - C major scale with F#

What's it called?

I'm new to this.. starting with the basics by trying to label my current songs.

For extra credit, how do I figure this out myself? I tried looking at this website:

http://www.guitarmasterclass.net/scalegenerator/
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Old 11-13-2012, 06:43 PM   #2
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Haha, oh wait.. is it a G major? Funny..
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Old 11-13-2012, 06:47 PM   #3
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do you know the difference between a scale and a key?
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Old 11-13-2012, 06:52 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hail
do you know the difference between a scale and a key?



well I suppose the word I used initially was wrong, I was looking for the key not the scale.

But as to the actual difference, that would be good for me to learn.
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Old 11-13-2012, 07:05 PM   #5
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ez pz

it could be either one. it's very possible to have an F# in C major. some people would call it C lydian, but that's unrelated. granted, it could be a C lydian scale, but it's functioning as either C major or G major. it all depends on what your key is.

as for the difference between a key and a scale: a scale is a set of notes. a key is the note that a piece resolves to.
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Old 11-13-2012, 07:17 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AeolianWolf
some people would call it C lydian




a key can have any of the 12 notes available as long as there's resolution, which denotes the tonic ("root")

scales are a good guide-point to keys but don't get too hung up on them.
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Old 11-13-2012, 07:24 PM   #7
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See now here is where I'm confused.

The song has three sections, each with a different verse or two. The first section starts on G, the second on C, and the 3rd starts and resolves on E.

All the notes in the song fit in the G major chord though.
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Old 11-13-2012, 07:26 PM   #8
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Not the E. In the key of G, the E is the vi scale degree, which is minor.

Some songs modulate, or change keys.
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Old 11-13-2012, 07:28 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Derickonfire
See now here is where I'm confused.

The song has three sections, each with a different verse or two. The first section starts on G, the second on C, and the 3rd starts and resolves on E.

All the notes in the song fit in the G major chord though.


it's not about what note the section "starts" on, but where it RESOLVES to. don't confuse "resolves to" with "ends on". resolution has to do more with a note "feeling like home", to put it simplistically.

while you're listening to the song, play a G, and really take it in. listen to it. play it multiple times if you need to. then play a C. same thing. which sounds more like home to you? if the song is in a minor key (which it seems not to be, but i thought i'd include the possibility anyway), try playing an E. does that sound more like home than C or G?

if it's in a major key, and the F# occurs often, then there's an extremely high likelihood that the G will feel more like home to you.
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Old 11-14-2012, 02:51 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Derickonfire
well I suppose the word I used initially was wrong, I was looking for the key not the scale.

But as to the actual difference, that would be good for me to learn.

G Major

Starting on any note, the major scale is constructed using the following steps:

Tone, tone, semitone, tone, tone, tone, semitone.

On the guitar, a tone is 2 frets and a semitone is one.

Starting the pattern on C you get C D E F G A B C

Starting on G we get G A B C D E F# G

Forget that mode crud. Forget it. Put the mode down. Step away from the car.
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Old 11-14-2012, 02:55 AM   #11
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b5 accidental? Blues scale.

In keys you can use any note you want, a F# in the key of C major is very common in rock and blues music. Quite often b7 and b3 accidentals are employed in addition to the b5 and this is called the blues scale.
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Old 11-14-2012, 09:02 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AlanHB
b5 accidental? Blues scale.

In keys you can use any note you want, a F# in the key of C major is very common in rock and blues music. Quite often b7 and b3 accidentals are employed in addition to the b5 and this is called the blues scale.


just to be that guy, it's an augmented 4th. it'd be Gb to be a b5

same thing if you're listening, but it's important to note the difference, esp when TS doesn't have a firm grasp on the fundamentals

Last edited by Hail : 11-14-2012 at 09:03 AM.
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Old 11-14-2012, 09:36 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hail
just to be that guy, it's an augmented 4th. it'd be Gb to be a b5

same thing if you're listening, but it's important to note the difference, esp when TS doesn't have a firm grasp on the fundamentals

Yes, but I'm not sure if TS knows whether you should use Gb or F#.

TS, could you post the song?

Also, fancy scale names don't help you. What matters is how you use them. The scale would be called "C lydian" but whatever, that doesn't really matter. You will still most likely be playing in C major and I think in this case you are most likely using G major scale over the key of G major. But post the song and we'll tell if it's in G or C or E or whatever.
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Old 11-14-2012, 04:34 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MaggaraMarine
Yes, but I'm not sure if TS knows whether you should use Gb or F#.

TS, could you post the song?

Also, fancy scale names don't help you. What matters is how you use them. The scale would be called "C lydian" but whatever, that doesn't really matter. You will still most likely be playing in C major and I think in this case you are most likely using G major scale over the key of G major. But post the song and we'll tell if it's in G or C or E or whatever.


I'm following along somewhat well with the discussion in this thread - my problem is that I've always been a play-by ear kinda guy. Still fairly new to the bass, only been playing guitar/bass for about 5 years, and this is my first time in a band. But we play 15 hours a week and have 6-7 solid songs that sound great so far (I have good judgement, listen to everything from Classical to Indie to Metal).

I know I need to improve my music theory to be the true musician. I also play a little guitar and want to be good at keys as well.

Thanks for the help all! Just hearing the discussion is helping me understand a bit..

Now, can we analyze this? What's going on? It's nothing complex, I know.


Here we go, I needed to tab it anyways so I could have a guide for Ableton (my bands a 3 piece and we use Ableton live as a "4th member".

I play bass, the tabs just show the notes - the rhythm is intricate except for the buildup which is mostly all played in 8th notes except a few accents.

Section 1, back and forth

4x
------------------------------------------C-D
--------------------G-A--------------G-----
-----------------D-------C-C-C-C-------
---G-G-G-G--------------------------

2x
----------------------------------
---------------------------------------
---C-C-C-C-A-A-A-A-------------------
-----------------------------G-G-G-G-G-G-G-G

Section 2 build-up/bridge

x3
-----------------------------------
------------------------------------
---C-C-C-C-C-C-C-C-A-A-A-A-B-B-B-B
----------------------------------------

1x
------------------------------------
--------------------------------------------E-E-D----
---C-C-C-C-C-C-C-C-A-A-A-A-------------B/E
-------------------------------------

1x
---------------------------------------
---------------------------------------
---E-E-E-E-E-E-E-E-F#-F#-F#-F#-D-D-E/F#
---------------------------------------

1x
------------------------------------
---C-C-C-C-C-C-C-C-A-A-A-A-B-B-B/14-
------------------------------------
------------------------------------

1x
--------------------------------------------
---E(14)-E-E-E-E-E-E-E-D(16)-DDDD-D-A-A-A-A-
--------------------------------------------
--------------------------------------------

1x
---14-14-14-14-12-12-12-12-14-14-14---14-14---
---------------------------------------------------------------
----------------------------------------------------12------12
------------------------------------------------------------

Section 3 drone heavy

6x
------------------
------------------
------------------
---0-0-0-0 to feel

2x
------------------
------------------
---C-C-C-C to feel
------------------

2x
------------------
------------------
------------------
---0-0-0-0 to feel

2x
--------------------------------------------------
---GG-G-AA--------------------------GG-G-AA-----------------
------------------C-C-C-C to feel----------------C-C-C-C-to feel-
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------E
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Last edited by Derickonfire : 11-14-2012 at 04:39 PM.
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Old 11-14-2012, 04:57 PM   #15
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^^^ I only had a quick flick, is it in the key of G major with a modulation to E minor?
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Old 11-14-2012, 05:07 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AlanHB
^^^ I only had a quick flick, is it in the key of G major with a modulation to E minor?


G Major and E minor would use the exact same notes right?

They just root/accent differently?

Still learning that too, I know each major key has a matching key in minor.
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Old 11-14-2012, 05:22 PM   #17
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^Yes they use the same notes, but the difference is where they resolve to. G major progressions resolve to G. E minor progressions resolve to E. AeolianWolf covered the definition of "resolves" pretty well so see his post.
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