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Old 08-18-2015, 12:25 PM   #61
bassofthe
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So… The three mixers I'm looking at right now.

The Midas PRO2C has all the features I want, at a price I can justify. However, it's only really meant to interface with other Midas gear - no MADI or Dante without an external converter - and Midas' higher consoles have some quirks that make me not want to use them (sixteen input faders on a one-hundred-and-ninety-six channel mixer? Really, Midas? Really?), so any system upgrade that would keep the PRO2C compatible are out of the question.

The DiGiCo SD9, on the other hand… It also has everything I need (except that the bundled stagebox has 32 inputs instead of the Midas' 48), and it has built-in MADI and can easily interface with anything. The higher DiGiCo consoles also seem like something I would want to use. I can't find the Norwegian price for it, but my Googling has led me to believe it's a bit more expensive than the Midas, so I'm not sure I can justify that price. Also, the Norwegian distributor's website is ridiculously unhelpful. Perhaps my dealer can help me find out what I'd need to know.

The Soundcraft Vi1 has 32 inputs on the surface, while I would prefer a stagebox and digital snake. However, unlike Midas and DiGiCo, I have actually done a show on a Soundcraft Vi series console (Vi4), and I really liked the mixing interface. The copious local IO is really my only complaint with this mixer.

My research has lead me to completely disregard Avid Venue and Yamaha consoles for my use.

What do I do?
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Old 08-18-2015, 04:43 PM   #62
Phil Starr
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I'm staggered by how much money you must have. the cheapest of these mixers is EU12,000

Given that these need to be matched with equally good equipment you are talking about potentially spending well in excess of EU30,000 (£20,000) for a live sound set up?

From your previous post I gained the impression you were just starting out. This is serious high end touring band gear, way beyond what most people here will ever encounter. Good luck to you but this is way beyond my pay grade. I doubt that most people here would be able to advise you either.
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Old 08-18-2015, 05:28 PM   #63
bassofthe
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It will take me a while (months/years) to save up for this, and I won't be buying an entire rig at once. My first priority is just getting the sound from the musicians to the PA and monitors. Getting my own of the latter comes later.

I was originally looking at the Allen & Heath Qu-16, but I realized that it would be a better idea to get something where I wouldn't immediately be maxing out the input channels. Then things started spiralling, since I can't stop thinking big, and I figured I should get a small-sized touring-grade console.

Music is a hobby to me, which means I don't care about cost or profit. I just want to have fun with the best equipment I can get my hands on. Because really, if doing sound gave me a paycheck, guess what I'd spend that money on anyway?
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Old 08-22-2015, 09:32 PM   #64
Phil Starr
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Hmmm, I'm wondering if you would be better off with the Behringer X32. You get the Midas preamps and more facilities than you would use, so plenty of chances for you to grow as a tech. They are highly rated and used by a lot of touring bands. About £2000 so not exactly cheap but very functional and you wouldn't lose too much if you wanted/could afford an upgrade in a couple of years time.
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Old 08-23-2015, 07:49 AM   #65
bassofthe
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Phil Starr
Hmmm, I'm wondering if you would be better off with the Behringer X32. You get the Midas preamps and more facilities than you would use, so plenty of chances for you to grow as a tech. They are highly rated and used by a lot of touring bands. About £2000 so not exactly cheap but very functional and you wouldn't lose too much if you wanted/could afford an upgrade in a couple of years time.
That "upgrade" is exactly what I don't want to do. I don't buy gear with the intention of ever selling it. And then there's the B name - I'd much rather get the Midas M32 in that case.
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Old 08-24-2015, 01:36 AM   #66
the chemist
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bassofthe
So… The three mixers I'm looking at right now.

The Midas PRO2C has all the features I want, at a price I can justify. However, it's only really meant to interface with other Midas gear - no MADI or Dante without an external converter - and Midas' higher consoles have some quirks that make me not want to use them (sixteen input faders on a one-hundred-and-ninety-six channel mixer? Really, Midas? Really?), so any system upgrade that would keep the PRO2C compatible are out of the question.

The DiGiCo SD9, on the other hand… It also has everything I need (except that the bundled stagebox has 32 inputs instead of the Midas' 48), and it has built-in MADI and can easily interface with anything. The higher DiGiCo consoles also seem like something I would want to use. I can't find the Norwegian price for it, but my Googling has led me to believe it's a bit more expensive than the Midas, so I'm not sure I can justify that price. Also, the Norwegian distributor's website is ridiculously unhelpful. Perhaps my dealer can help me find out what I'd need to know.

The Soundcraft Vi1 has 32 inputs on the surface, while I would prefer a stagebox and digital snake. However, unlike Midas and DiGiCo, I have actually done a show on a Soundcraft Vi series console (Vi4), and I really liked the mixing interface. The copious local IO is really my only complaint with this mixer.

My research has lead me to completely disregard Avid Venue and Yamaha consoles for my use.

What do I do?


I'd take a gander at the A&H iLive series. While they may not have the native MADI support you want, you can buy expansion cards that allow you to interface with most of the major digital recording processes (MADI, Dante, ADAT), and has the CAT5 remote stagebox that you appear to want with your set-up.

The only console you listed that I'm not a fan of is the Soundcraft. The interface on it is not overly intuitive, but I'm sure that like the DiGi Co, once you get over the curve it's relatively easy to use.
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Old 09-05-2015, 05:52 PM   #67
bassofthe
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I'm actually looking at the new DiGiCo S21 right now. Seems more or less exactly what I want.
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Old 09-05-2015, 07:09 PM   #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bassofthe
It will take me a while (months/years) to save up for this, and I won't be buying an entire rig at once. My first priority is just getting the sound from the musicians to the PA and monitors. Getting my own of the latter comes later.

I was originally looking at the Allen & Heath Qu-16, but I realized that it would be a better idea to get something where I wouldn't immediately be maxing out the input channels. Then things started spiralling, since I can't stop thinking big, and I figured I should get a small-sized touring-grade console.

Music is a hobby to me, which means I don't care about cost or profit. I just want to have fun with the best equipment I can get my hands on. Because really, if doing sound gave me a paycheck, guess what I'd spend that money on anyway?


Rent sound when you need big instead of buying some overkill semi-touring system. Modern digital consoles are very hi tech these days and become obsolete in just a few years. Most pro live sound companies change out their console every year for the latest and greatest to match their needs. Besides, you want to focus on making music, not getting into the moving and storage business.

I have owned 5 different live sound rigs over the years and each one has been successively smaller. When we need to mic out the whole band (once a year or so) we rent sound with crew and add it to our performance fee.

For someone who describes himself as a "freelance amateur sound engineer hoping to someday make a living off live and studio sound" I would treat it like a business from day one and only buy gear that will pay for itself quickly through regular paid use. Pro racing teams don't start out in F1, they start with Karts and learn to master the sport with simple tools on a shoestring budget.

In your shoes I would look hard at a tablet based system. Everyone who has done this for a while knows sitting behind a console is the dead zone. You gotta move around the room and listen from the front, the back, the sides, and from the musicians perspective. A tablet based system makes digital mixing on-the-fly a breeze. Food for thought.
http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/jun...ht-0614.htm#Top
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Last edited by Cajundaddy : 09-05-2015 at 09:58 PM.
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Old 09-08-2015, 03:20 AM   #69
Phil Starr
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Wise advice from Cajundaddy and if you go the digital route you will upgrade, simply because the tech is changing so rapidly.
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Old 09-08-2015, 05:52 PM   #70
bassofthe
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Phil Starr
Wise advice from Cajundaddy and if you go the digital route you will upgrade, simply because the tech is changing so rapidly.
A production that needs more than the S21 has has the budget to hire. I won't need to upgrade.
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