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Old 05-30-2012, 09:05 PM   #1
H.I.Shredder808
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Question Bugera 333XL Infimium FX Loop and pedals?

Hey guys,

So I just got my bugera 333XL 2x12 infinium in today. It has a lot of distortion, but im looking to add an FX loop in for a boost. Although it has a lot, it isnt enough and it just doesnt sound right. Or even close to what guys like Dingle play with. Plus I cant tweak the settings to what tone I hear in my head.

Any Suggestions on what I can do? Ive heard the loop adds a good amount of boost, but would a tube screamer or pedal be necessary?

Thanks
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Old 05-30-2012, 09:17 PM   #2
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I wouldn't think so. The 333 has plenty of gain. Also bear in mind that Dingle is using a 412 Marshall cabinet, which is far superior to a bugera cabinet.
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Old 05-30-2012, 09:19 PM   #3
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if you're looking for distortion boost, i'd be looking in the pedal area, something like MXR boost, or a distortion pedal, if you're in metal, boss MT are pretty good. I personally looking forwards to get the angry troll.
But yeah, i'd put FX loops for chorus, flanger and stuff, and any boost, distortion overdrive, get a good pedal and put it before your amp. voilą
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Old 05-30-2012, 09:20 PM   #4
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Im not too sure if just using a 4x12 would increase the gain or help me tweak the settings....
So just a loop then? Because the amp comes with a foot switch for an FX Loop (Boost) but im clueless on what to do about it.
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Old 05-30-2012, 09:23 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheSpade_
if you're looking for distortion boost, i'd be looking in the pedal area, something like MXR boost, or a distortion pedal, if you're in metal, boss MT are pretty good. I personally looking forwards to get the angry troll.
But yeah, i'd put FX loops for chorus, flanger and stuff, and any boost, distortion overdrive, get a good pedal and put it before your amp. voilą



Would an ibanez tubescreamer work? Ive heard only good things about the Boss's, but im not looking foward to the price......What about the line 6 products?
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Old 05-30-2012, 09:23 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by H.I.Shredder808
Im not too sure if just using a 4x12 would increase the gain or help me tweak the settings....
So just a loop then? Because the amp comes with a foot switch for an FX Loop (Boost) but im clueless on what to do about it.

You put gain boosts in front of your amp. The reason why Dingle sounds the way he does amp-wise is because he's using a good cabinet. Dingle does not use any boost pedals in his demos.

A good cabinet is essential to good guitar tone and that is where Bugera typically falls flat.
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Old 05-30-2012, 09:29 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheSpade_
what do you mean by "FX loop (boost)"? do you know what an fx loop is? No offense intended



Not really to be honest. I have a slight idea. Im just looking to improve my tone with this new amp I got. Its for improving the tone of the amp and fine tuning it, surpassing what you can dial in on the base settings itself right? Please enlighten me if im wrong. Id like to know how this stuff works.


And yes, I know he doesnt use a distortion pedal. Only pedal i think is the tremonti wah. Im just looking for options on how to get the tone from my head out of the amp.
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Old 05-30-2012, 09:29 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by T00DEEPBLUE
You put gain boosts in front of your amp. The reason why Dingle sounds the way he does amp-wise is because he's using a good cabinet. Dingle does not use any boost pedals in his demos.

A good cabinet is essential to good guitar tone and that is where Bugera typically falls flat.



So switch speakers then? Someone told me this awhile ago.
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Old 05-30-2012, 09:55 PM   #9
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An effects loop is not used for boost pedals, nor does it create any kind of boost to the signal by itself. An effects loop is simply a feature that allows you to put in effect pedals after the preamp (distortion) but before the power amp (volume). This is usually where you put effects like delay, reverb, chorus and additional noise gates; it allows them to work after your distortion and main tone. For boost pedals, overdrives and distortions you want to put them before the amp (not in the effect loop) so they actually change the distortion (preamp).
The ''boost'' that is on the Bugera's effects loop is not the same sort of ''boost'' you use to increase distortion. It simply increases the strength of the signal that is sent to the pedals you put in the effects loop, since some pedals work well with a low signal and others work better with a high signal. There are ways of setting this up to plain increase the signal going to the power amp but this will not increase your distortion. This will simply make you louder, as if you just turned the volume up on the amp.

Switching to a 4x12 cabinet would not increase gain. Different speakers can change your tone by having more bass response or by simply being better made so they respond to everything a little clearer, and different size speakers and different numbers of speakers will increase or decrease how loud you are, but the core of your tone will always remain the same and different speakers can not add distortion or make truly dramatic changes to your tone. A Marshall Plexi head will always sound like a Plexi head regardless of whether it is plugged into a 2x12 with Vintage 30 speakers or a 4x12 with T75 speakers; a Mesa Triple Rectifier will always sound powerful and high-gain no matter what sort of speaker cabinet it is plugged in to. Changing speakers certainly can alter your tone a lot but it won't do what you want it to do.


There are two things to think about here: one, how you're currently setting up the amp; and two, what you want to add to it.

For part one, basically just take a look at how you currently have all the controls on the amp set. The 333XL is a very high-gain amplifier, so you should have no problem getting as much distortion as you want. Take a close look at the EQ controls (bass, middle, treble, presence). These define your tone more than anything else. If you take them to extremes then your tone is going to be bad. Completely cutting or maxing out any of them is going to result in that part either not being heard at all (not good - music is sound, you want it to be heard) or completely dominating (also not good, since then nothing else will be heard). Start off by setting all the EQ controls halfway, right in the middle of their range. Listen to how it sounds and think carefully about each area, whether you want more or less of it. Make small changes and just tweak one setting at a time until you get it exactly where you want it. Remember too that some things sound good in some rooms but bad in others. Lots of bass is great in a big venue but it will make you sound muddy in a small room. Removing the mids makes you sound clear at home but on stage it will make it very hard to hear you; the mids are the most important part of the guitar's sound. Lots of treble make also make you sound very clear and make your lead playing really scream out, but too much treble in a smaller area will just sound like you're playing through a broken radio. Presence is the only control which works out more or less the same in most places. More presence will give you a brighter tone that 'cuts through' better, but too much can become unpleasantly harsh, like treble. Less presence gives you a smoother tone that works really nicely for clean playing but can make your distorted playing a little muddy if you reduce it too much.
Like I said, start off with everything in the middle and make small adjustments, carefully listening to how the tone changes.

The second part is adding pedals before your amp to change your tone. There are several ways you an do this.
A plain boost pedal simply increases the signal from our guitar so the amp has more to work with - everything will be increased evenly. It's like the 'boost' on your amps effect loop, only you would put it before your amp instead so it will effect the distortion instead of effecting the volume. This is useful when you like how your amp sounds and you just want more of it.
An EQ pedal can do the same but gives you controls to boost different portions of your tone at different amounts, so you can set the mids to be boosted a lot for a solo tone or you can set the mids to be cut a bit and the bass to be boosted a littled for a classic rhythm tone. This is useful when there is a specific part of your tone you want to make stand out.
An overdrive pedal increases the signal from your guitar and also adds a tiny bit of its own distortion. This is useful when you want to add to the amp's own distortion without totally changing it.
A distortion pedal is usually designed to work with the clean channel of your amplifier, so you get all of your distorted tones from the pedal instead of from the amp. This can completely change your sound and is useful if you can't get the amp's distortion to sound right, or if you like the amp's distortion but then want another type of distortion too.
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Old 05-30-2012, 10:11 PM   #10
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Wow. Totally helpful Fibble, thank you once again I think I was getting FX loop and seperate EQ mixed up. I was thinking an EQ through an FX loop. Would running an EQ and a distortion pedal be overkill on an amp like this?
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Old 05-30-2012, 10:42 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by H.I.Shredder808
Wow. Totally helpful Fibble, thank you once again I think I was getting FX loop and seperate EQ mixed up. I was thinking an EQ through an FX loop. Would running an EQ and a distortion pedal be overkill on an amp like this?

Having a distortion pedal in front of an amp like that seems a bit unnecessary unless you want the ability to go to a lead sound with more gain and midrange, in which case, a pedal such as a tubescreamer is useful so you can get to a lead sound quickly.

An EQ is very useful on any amp. a 10-band graphic EQ would allow you to perform fine adjustments that otherwise would be impossible. They're extremely useful.

IMO, if you want to get the most out of the Bugera's i would replace the speakers with something Eminence or Celestian. What is recommended for these amps are either the Celestian Vintage 30, the G12T-75 or the Eminence Swamp Thang. There is no rule on this, you can use whatever you like, but those are popular speakers to use on Bugera's.

I would know this because i used to own a 6262 head.
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Old 05-30-2012, 10:56 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by T00DEEPBLUE
Having a distortion pedal in front of an amp like that seems a bit unnecessary unless you want the ability to go to a lead sound with more gain and midrange, in which case, a pedal such as a tubescreamer is useful.

An EQ is very useful on any amp. a 10-band graphic EQ would allow you to perform fine adjustments that otherwise would be impossible. They're extremely useful.

IMO, if you want to get the most out of the Bugera's i would replace the speakers with something Eminence or Celestian. What is recommended for these amps are either the Celestian Vintage 30, the G12T-75 or the Eminence Swamp Thang. There is no rule on this, you can use whatever you like, but those are popular speakers to use on Bugera's.

I would know this because i used to own a 6262 head.



Thanks. I was wondering why everyone was thinking I was crazy when I basically said an FX can act as an EQ. My big concern now is what EQ would be best? Either something you suggested or line 6 products?

And the speakers will have to wait seeing that im gona be spending more money very soon. But I was considering the V30s or the mick thompson sig model celestions. Arent the 75's used in Mesa cabs?

The pedal will be after I get the EQ, but ill look into the tubescreamer. After the EQ, I should have enough distortion though im pretty sure.
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Old 05-30-2012, 11:08 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by H.I.Shredder808
Thanks. I was wondering why everyone was thinking I was crazy when I basically said an FX can act as an EQ. My big concern now is what EQ would be best? Either something you suggested or line 6 products?

And the speakers will have to wait seeing that im gona be spending more money very soon. But I was considering the V30s or the mick thompson sig model celestions. Arent the 75's used in Mesa cabs?

The pedal will be after I get the EQ, but ill look into the tubescreamer. After the EQ, I should have enough distortion though im pretty sure.

There is no right or wrong EQ because they all work the same way. The MXR (by Jim Dunlop) 10-band is popular.

Vintage 30's are very popular with many amps and work very well with high gain. Most Mesa, Randall, Orange and Marshall cabinets use them. They're almost an industry standard for cabinet speakers.

75's have less midrange and more low end. I wouldn't recommend the Mick Thomson Celestians unless you really know your amp and knew what you are getting. Signature gear tends to be a bit singular in focus, going for one kind of sound whilst sacrificing other sounds in the process.

I wouldn't bother with distortion pedals unless you really know what you're getting and you know that your amp needs it. The 333XL has more gain than you'll ever need by default, so unless you want the ability to switch to a lead tone very quickly, i wouldn't get one.
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Old 05-30-2012, 11:21 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by T00DEEPBLUE
There is no right or wrong EQ because they all work the same way. The MXR (by Jim Dunlop) 10-band is popular.

Vintage 30's are very popular with many amps and work very well with high gain. Most Mesa, Randall, Orange and Marshall cabinets use them. They're almost an industry standard for cabinet speakers.

75's have less midrange and more low end. I wouldn't recommend the Mick Thomson Celestians unless you really know your amp and knew what you are getting. Signature gear tends to be a bit singular in focus, going for one kind of sound whilst sacrificing other sounds in the process.

I wouldn't bother with distortion pedals unless you really know what you're getting and you know that your amp needs it. The 333XL has more gain than you'll ever need by default, so unless you want the ability to switch to a lead tone very quickly, i wouldn't get one.



So hows installing speakers in a 2X12 from bugera? Is it hard? I know basic electronics and have installed car speakers before. Kinda the same thing?
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Old 05-30-2012, 11:25 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by H.I.Shredder808
So hows installing speakers in a 2X12 from bugera? Is it hard? I know basic electronics and have installed car speakers before. Kinda the same thing?

Yes. It is very straightforward. If you have experience with replacing speakers in your car, you'll be able to do it yourself no problem. There are lots of online tutorials that you can find on Google.
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Old 05-30-2012, 11:28 PM   #16
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I have the 333xl non-Infinium combo. There is no way you dont have enough gain sans pedals unless yours is broken or the preamp is drastically different. With the gain all the way up the lead channel is almost unusable in my book. Are you sure you are looking for gain and aren't confusing gain with some other term? Can you try to describe what it is you are looking for that you aren't getting?

One key to remember is that you need to play this 100-watt beast louder than what most would consider to be bedroom volume to get the most out of it. It's useable at low volume, but sounds better if you let it out of its cage. Turn the channel volumes to noon and master to 10 o'clock to start.

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Old 05-30-2012, 11:41 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by j_gets
I have the 333xl non-Infinium combo. There is no way you dont have enough gain sans pedals unless yours is broken or the preamp is drastically different. With the gain all the way up the lead channel is almost unusable in my book. Are you sure you are looking for gain and aren't confusing gain with some other term? Can you try to describe what it is you are looking for that you aren't getting?

One key to remember is that you need to play this 100-watt beast louder than what most would consider to be bedroom volume to get the most out of it. It's useable at low volume, but sounds better if you let it out of its cage. Turn the channel volumes to noon and master to 10 o'clock to start.



yeah, i know what gain is, ive been playing for almost five years.... I just figured out that you can use the (boost) feature without having an external boost pedal. I just turned up the back knobs and hit the floor switch.

It has enough gain, I just want to fine tune the sound to get the tne im after. And with Dingles videos and all the other vids on bugera 333XL's, I know its possible to create the tone I hear in my head. With an EQ of course. And I can tell its the speakers also, because the carvin I sold had more bass and it just sounded clearer.

And that part sucked lol . you have to crank this beast to get the full 120 watt power out of it. It totally drowned out all of my backing tracks.

And the channel volumes determine the max tone your getting right? You can have the master low and the tone maxed and get full power as opposed to the master high and the channel low, and getting less?
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Old 05-30-2012, 11:45 PM   #18
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Yes. It is very straightforward. If you have experience with replacing speakers in your car, you'll be able to do it yourself no problem. There are lots of online tutorials that you can find on Google.



Cool, Thanks for your help. I just really dont want to mess this amp up. IMO its better than the legacy I had, but nows the time to learn about these things.
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Old 09-13-2013, 03:28 AM   #19
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I think one thing you are overlooking here is the 212 combo don't sound the same as the head does.. Why I can't tell you but I can say most every video with the head achieves that metal chunk you driving for.

You do need a good 10 band MXR EQ in the loop to do what you need above your settings.

Tubes can make a huge difference.

I own the 333XL 212 non Infin and I am NOT happy with my gain at all. It sounded great when I first bought it but soon after the tones just went to crap.
It is like a gain on gain and there is no real separation making it heavy and tight. So that leads me back to think a faulty component on the board somewhere.

So the Bass, Mid, High on these are all active. When you change one it changes the tone of all the others. This can make it difficult to dial it in.
I think if you take off the XL switch it is much cleaner and be sure you are using the right input as well. This makes a difference.

I put JJ KT-77's and JJ-ECC83S in mine and I still have to bias it till I get rid of the fizz. If you go to far then you can really hear it gets tighter but then the tone is completely sterile.

Most of what I researched this amp is hit and miss. Some get great sound and others have to use it as a stepping stone till they get a better built tube amp.
I still happy I got it over the Fender Mustang they tried to talk me into. I find just the Crunch channel can give you all you need. from classic rock into metal. I have tried different Pre amp tubes but not happy with them at all. I just wish I had a savvy tech in my pocket like I knew in the old days..
Lack of schematics make this a difficult amp to deal with, hence you have to get it serviced elsewhere.

Sure turning it up does do what tubes are suppose to but I can't agree with 12OC on the channel nobs at all way to hot.. 10OC to 11OC usuall does it all.. Even Santriani don't run his that far.
Oh and yeah a real 412 cab can help..
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Old 09-13-2013, 12:39 PM   #20
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^ why are you bumping old Bugera threads?

This is over a year old.

*Reported*

oh.....and welcome to UG
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