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Old 01-11-2013, 06:45 PM   #101
smit0910
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Well,

I have got to say, a lot of you are a *little* bit biased here...

First off, nowadays, there are barely, if at all, any guitar sellers on TradeTang OR DHgate that claim that they are selling the legitimate item. Not only that, but most sellers would gladly change the guitars in any way you ask, free of charge, in order to make you, the customer happy. You cannot say the same thing about any guitar company around here.

Second, I cracked and purchased a 12 string Rickenbacker-like copy off of dhgate... great decision. Why? Because all of the electric 12 string guitars sold in North America are way to friggen expensive to justify buying a guitar for just one or two songs. And guess what? The quality was really good, in fact it was far better quality than one would expect after paying $275 cdn (always free shipping btw). The guitar DID have a crappy replicated "R" on the tailpiece, which I asked them to remove... AND they did. Everything was wired nicely, there were no imperfections and the craftsmanship was amazing. The pickups weren't GREAT but I'd have definitely played live with them had I not replaced them with better ones.

Thirdly, I understand there is "Intellectual property" involved with Rickenbacker (and other) copies, I hesitate to give a crap when: a) they aren't claiming the guitars to be what they're not. b) I took the risk of buying a guitar from a chinese manufacturer despite all the unwarranted chinese guitar haters on these guitar forums, my risk, my accountability. c) They sell good product that DO stand up to the original. d) It's not illegal for these sellers to make whatever guitars they wish in their country nor is it illegal for me to buy them. AND e) The guitar companies in North America make high-end or specialty guitars unattainable for people who could never afford them.

So far in this "stickied" thread, I have seen a lot of whining and complaining, but hardly anyone has said they've tried the guitars or were able to judge the quality. I, on the other hand, put up my own cash, took a risk and got a high quality item. I even bought another guitar from the same seller, and guess what? Great quality once again.

What I want to get across here is that all this whining and assuming is unfair to people who have every right to make guitars for a living. Yes, sure, maybe some of them are crooks, but just be vigilant and smart, that's what feedback is for. I encourage buying guitars from China, I also encourage local purchases, it's your choice. Just don't judge until you've tried, especially you OP!
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Old 02-02-2013, 11:24 AM   #102
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smit0910
Well,

I have got to say, a lot of you are a *little* bit biased here...

First off, nowadays, there are barely, if at all, any guitar sellers on TradeTang OR DHgate that claim that they are selling the legitimate item. Not only that, but most sellers would gladly change the guitars in any way you ask, free of charge, in order to make you, the customer happy. You cannot say the same thing about any guitar company around here.

Second, I cracked and purchased a 12 string Rickenbacker-like copy off of dhgate... great decision. Why? Because all of the electric 12 string guitars sold in North America are way to friggen expensive to justify buying a guitar for just one or two songs. And guess what? The quality was really good, in fact it was far better quality than one would expect after paying $275 cdn (always free shipping btw). The guitar DID have a crappy replicated "R" on the tailpiece, which I asked them to remove... AND they did. Everything was wired nicely, there were no imperfections and the craftsmanship was amazing. The pickups weren't GREAT but I'd have definitely played live with them had I not replaced them with better ones.

Thirdly, I understand there is "Intellectual property" involved with Rickenbacker (and other) copies, I hesitate to give a crap when: a) they aren't claiming the guitars to be what they're not. b) I took the risk of buying a guitar from a chinese manufacturer despite all the unwarranted chinese guitar haters on these guitar forums, my risk, my accountability. c) They sell good product that DO stand up to the original. d) It's not illegal for these sellers to make whatever guitars they wish in their country nor is it illegal for me to buy them. AND e) The guitar companies in North America make high-end or specialty guitars unattainable for people who could never afford them.

So far in this "stickied" thread, I have seen a lot of whining and complaining, but hardly anyone has said they've tried the guitars or were able to judge the quality. I, on the other hand, put up my own cash, took a risk and got a high quality item. I even bought another guitar from the same seller, and guess what? Great quality once again.

What I want to get across here is that all this whining and assuming is unfair to people who have every right to make guitars for a living. Yes, sure, maybe some of them are crooks, but just be vigilant and smart, that's what feedback is for. I encourage buying guitars from China, I also encourage local purchases, it's your choice. Just don't judge until you've tried, especially you OP!

Obviously you don't get it. Like you said the companys will change or add names so they are still telling you they will make a counterfeit guitar
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Old 02-02-2013, 11:24 PM   #103
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Quote:
Thirdly, I understand there is "Intellectual property" involved with Rickenbacker (and other) copies, I hesitate to give a crap when: a) they aren't claiming the guitars to be what they're not. b) I took the risk of buying a guitar from a chinese manufacturer despite all the unwarranted chinese guitar haters on these guitar forums, my risk, my accountability. c) They sell good product that DO stand up to the original. d) It's not illegal for these sellers to make whatever guitars they wish in their country nor is it illegal for me to buy them. AND e) The guitar companies in North America make high-end or specialty guitars unattainable for people who could never afford them.


A) if the infringement is substantial enough, the courts won't care what you call it, it could still trigger legal penalties

B) yes, it is your risk and accountability, which- depending on where you live and other details- could include jail time, fines, and confiscation and destruction of the counterfeit goods in question

C) you say that having already replaced the stock pickups, and (presumably- correct me if I am wrong) not done a side-by-side comparison nor having had the guitar long enough to see how well the woods & hardware last over time. (Metal fatigue is a bitch...)

D) actually, it IS illegal to make those guitars in China- I've read the laws, and China is a signatory to numerous international intellectual property treaties, and have even modeled their domestic IP laws after those found in Western countries*- the makers are just enjoying the benefit of selective enforcement.

E) that you cannot afford a product does not entitle you to buy an illegally produced knock-off. And remember, part of why a product made in the USA or Canada may cost more includes not just worker's hourly wages, but also things like anti-pollution laws, product safety laws, workplace safety inspections, etc. It is not an accident that China is currently having some horrific pollution episodes.

For example: http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/201...es-media-action









* in part because the Chinese government got pissed off when some Chinese IP thieves started going after the products of Chinese IP holders, wrecking their businesses...
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Old 02-07-2013, 03:02 AM   #104
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Sorry if didn't read all the previous posts, so may be redundant. Over here in Thailand local shop has Gibson Les Pauls with "Made in USA" on back of headstock, for $300. They look nice, like Thai transvestities. When you take them home, you are the one that gets f**ked, in both cases. The shop does say they are made in China and not real, to their credit. That tradetang site has so much bogus junk... you do get what you pay for, usually....
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Old 03-15-2013, 01:05 AM   #105
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Nice post! Now we have to be careful when GAS kicks in. hahaha

Well I'm not really a person who needs to have the real/authentic brand to be able to play. As what I see as a musician, what matters most is the preferred setup of the guitar that makes me want to play it.

No matter how many $$$ my guitar costs, if it's not set up to my preference, it will sound bad (for me at least) and I would play bad on it. I did setup one. Bought it cheap and replaced the parts (bridge, pots, pickups, etc), set everything and it was perfect and played beautifully. And is still with me today. Total amount spent = half of branded ones.

Anyway, this is a great post. It's not just the guitar counterfeits that we have to worry, we also have to look out for the parts and accessories, these are important.

Off topic: By the way, I read a lot of comments about items being listed in ebay. There are a lot of counterfeits in eBay. Be careful!

Rules to follow in ebay:

-Read the title
-Read the description(Yes read it from start to finish, you have to.)
-Look at the pictures closely (bad quality pics? contact the seller and ask for good pics)
-Take note that they can sell fakes as long as they indicate that it's a "strat copy" or a "les paul copy" again read the title.

Back on topic: Nice thread! Maybe I'll post a picture of an item I'm doubting. Not really familiar with other brands, I still need professional eyes.
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Old 04-21-2013, 10:31 PM   #106
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This is another vote for the cheapies... honestly, the best piece of advise was already given... 1. Stick with foriegn auction sites that are estabished.
2. Stick with sellers that have high ratings.

My personal reccomendation, just get the "look-a-like" that you want based on looks and construction... so what if it doesn;t actually have "Gibson" written at the top, you know it's not a Gibson anyway, and you would only fool those who are ignorant to the difference and don;t care either. Spend $300 on the guitar with the body and finish you want, drop another $200 to $300 on orignal parts (pups and pots for sure), and set it up the way you want it.

Once you get good pickups, a decent setup, and at worst, a fret dressing... You will mosty likely have a killer guitar for 1/4 the amount you'd have paid at a guitar shop for basically the same thing without the brand name. I've had one of these fakes that I ordered and setup for a buddy of mine, it was a LP fake, no branding on the head. After a decent setup it felt really good, much better than some of the less expensive Gibby's and Epi's I've played. Then we swapped the puups and put in real gibson 490r/496t combo and it sounded amazing.

Still not feeling good about it... Get the budget brand from the maker you want, then spend the extra dough on the pickups you want... at least then you still save about 1/2.
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Old 04-22-2013, 04:19 PM   #107
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I've actually played quite a few chinese "Gibsons" that were nice instruments. almost bought a copy of a LP Supreme from a friend because it was cheap and sturdy. I used it live for about 3 months with no problems
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Old 05-24-2013, 01:35 AM   #108
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Balthazar1967
Don't understand why anyone would buy a knockoff knowingly. If its from a cheap site and the guitar costs little money then its going to be shit.

Just save up the money and buy a decent guitar.


This isnt entirely true. I just paid $200 for a knockoff brand telecaster, and it holds up to any real telecaster I've ever played. Sure - its not TRYING to be a Fender, and doesnt say Fender on the headstock, but cheap doesnt always mean bad, and cheap certainly doesnt always mean its not good value for what it is.
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Old 05-27-2013, 02:28 AM   #109
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I don't think the point really is about the quality of the instruments or if they're cheap or awesome. The primary point of this thread is about people that continue finding amazing deals on "real" brand name guitars and ask if it's too good to be true. Obviously, the answer is YES!

A secondary point in this thread is about counterfeiting and whether or not it should be supported. Regardless of whether I think American-built PRS are too expensive, seeing a counterfeit one on a Chinese site does not fill me with warm fuzzies. Maybe it does for others -- maybe people feel like they're sticking it to the "Man" by supporting counterfeiters.

Despite it being illegal in the USA (and possibly other countries), it's a debate-worthy topic...
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Old 06-19-2013, 06:21 PM   #110
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First, I do not think that products which openly acknowledge that they are copies are legal. Industrial products are automatically protected by copyright, as I understand it. Any exact copy of a guitar, a chair, or anything else, is illegal, and copies where only minor details are changed are also caught under this.

Second, if you really are so tired, perhaps you should get some rest rather than writing the comments below. You do not seem to have investigated the subject.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by necrosis1193
I'm sick to death of every other day opening this forum and finding someone asking the same damn question again and again - "I found this expensive US-made guitar for *Insert sub-300 three-digit number here* on *Chinese wholesale site here* Is it worthwhile?"

Short-and-sweet, no, it's not. Fingers crossed this gets stickied since something like this up at the top should at least catch a few of the threads. Want more detail? Read on. Let me just say now though that not all Chinese/Korean/wherever copies are illegal copies - Only the ones claiming to be genuine Gibsons, Fenders, PRS', etc. are - Ones that openly acknowledge they're copies are legal.

First off, give this thread a read before even considering buying something you think may be fake. If you can see it in-person(ie, a secondhand seller), maybe print some of these out to check it with. They're a little dated and some of the pictures have been deleted since some of the sites have been taken down, but they're still relevant as long as you use logic and a little common sense with them - Something you should do with any purchase even if you know it's legit.

Second, here's a simple rule of thumb that always applies - If it's too good to be true, it probably is. This is common sense, but so few people use it. It shouldn't need to be said, so here it is.

Finally, before you decide "Well this guitar is still a nice deal", be aware of three things; First, you're probably going to be paying for the shipping from China. Most UGers are either in the UK or the US. Shipping across about half the US for a Les Paul off eBay is about $50. Imagine that for the guitar to come all the way from China. Same size and everything, fi not bigger since it's in that box with all the packaging.

The second thing to consider despite it seeming like a good deal is that it's nothing compared to the guitar it looks like. Most of these copies are about the quality of a Squier Bullet or an Epiphone LP-100; Nothing to be proud of, the kind of thing that's just made to carry off the lot before breaking down. The old adage holds firm - You get what you pay for.

On a final note, it depends on local laws and such, but a lot of places take counterfeiting very seriously. In most states, it's not just a felony to sell one of these - It's a felony to buy one or own one, especially knowingly. They'll probably let you off if you got duped and are calling to report the seller or something, but if you try to sell it secondhand to a shop that does a background check to make sure it's not stolen or anything, expect charges.

Anyway, I'm tired. Use common sense, good judgement, the advice in this thread, and much more crucially since this is mainly an attention-grabber for anyone thinking of posting on this subject, use the above linked fake guitar thread, and you can avoid one of these counterfeit pieces of crap. Might post more in the morning, or copypaste some posts from the fake thread with updated photos and such. Good night, and good luck.(In your guitar-shopping! )
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Old 06-28-2013, 09:11 AM   #111
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Isn't the real issue that everyone, I think, would complain if a counterfeit was sold to somebody as real. If on the other hand, somebody buys one to use themselves, then the crime would appear to be having a counterfeit item in their possession - not fraud or the deception. In the UK, selling one on would be a criminal matter if it's a fake, but owning one is a civil law issue. Everyone has their own opinions on copyright. We see numerous people trying to use music without paying the creators, and attempting to justify it. Buying a Chinese guitar is exactly the same. They shouldn't do it, but there is a market. I've got a few, and some are beautiful to look at, and play nicely, while others can look good but play like dogs. It's a gamble, isn't it?

I do know I'd rather gig a playable Les Paul copy that looks nice than throw a decent expensive original in the truck. In the studio, I use the valuable one.

For what it's worth, I import quite a few microphones from China, and many guitars I have bought come from companies in the same unit. These items are cottage industry products. They rent space in large complexes where everyone works together. So a wood shop turns out guitar necks and bodies, and probably chair legs and other similar wooden items. Next door is a company who are expert in spraying and finishing, and probably do guitars and furniture too. Another company do small electronics work. They install the electronics and make them work - they probably also assemble some of my microphones and the PCBs for moving head LED lights. So, if you like something you see, but you need it red, not blue - it's no big deal at all, just takes a day or two longer. They copy many guitars by using internet images, and sometimes they have copied from low res images and get things wrong. Sometimes they can make mistakes in the wiring, and they don't notice because the people wiring the selector switches have no idea what is supposed to happen. Sometimes, they just cannot get the parts they originally used. The photo may well have gold tuners, but when they source your guitars parts, the people who fabricate the tuners may not have any, so they swap either finish or style. They don't know which is which.

I too have a Rickenbacker (ha ha) 12 string, and the strings are fitted the wrong way compared to a real one, and of course the nut slots are cut for the 'wrong' way so you can't swap. The neck is also wider, which actually makes them easier to play than the genuine ones. I've got a nice Les Paul that there only appear to have been a tiny number made by Gibson, and one went on ebay for 8 grand! The Chinese copy was $320. It looks similar, and the tree of life inlay on the neck is stunning. How does it play? Ok - nothing very special, but wow it looks nice. If you keep these things in mind, then it's a choice to be made. I have 4, and only one is not so good.
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Old 07-16-2013, 12:25 AM   #112
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Do the Math...Its Easy! Places like TradeTang,DHgate are Shit! If you order a guitar,you may get one,you may not..and their no way to get your hard earned money back either!
Sure..it only cost $300..good luck getting what you ordered from a photo..if they just don't screw you and ship you nothing. Read the reviews on both those sites..nothing good to say about either!

Korea,Malaysia,Indonesia,Vietnam,China and Mexico make us eat their shit!
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Old 03-12-2014, 01:09 AM   #113
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Originally Posted by Stormymonday
Korea,Malaysia,Indonesia,Vietnam,China and Mexico make us eat their shit!
What are You having for Dinner??


quite true
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Old 03-14-2014, 03:44 AM   #114
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okay.. first off i didnt read every reply in the forum.. second im surprised at some of the things im hearing.. these fake guitars are good?? no there not..there not even epiphone or squier good.. they will make your squier sound and play like a real american fender..if you would like i can put up pics later... but about a year maybe year an a half ago.. i was with a band a good friend of mine and the guitar player for that band. played a few different guitars such as a gibson voodoo, fender tele, an ibanez 7 string rg, ltd hm-1000.. one day he brought in a esp guitar.. which i was sure it was a esp/ltd ec-1000, but it seemed odd that it said esp on the headstock this was right before they made a esp line.. and the font was the old style font they used..not block style.. anyhow i asked him about it.. he said it was bought from another friend who ordered it off some chines web-site... now this guitar was the biggest fake i have ever come across they did a really good job at faking this.. the pickups said emg on them, the tuners said grovers, everything looked good until you got up close. now for starters it doesnt hold tune at all.. most of the time the gears in the tunning machines didnt even work.. i used grovers for years never had that problem.. the pickups i am not even goin to say it.. they werent active, they were passive..no serial number, it said esp on the head stock and it said esp on the 12th fret.. not to mention the esp was engraved in the 12th fret, just like emg was in the pickups.. turn it over the back plates werent cut out right and were set a bit too deep..this whole guitar was a night mare... anyhow.. i bought that guitar from him knowning it was a fake.. he knew it and i knew it and everyone around knows it... i replaced everything in that guitar, leaving only the wood.. not sure what kinda of wood that is used but it is sold and now after about 450 dollars it stays in tune with real tuners, real emg 81 active pickups in both the bridge and neck. that sound awesome..

however after all this is said im glad someone took time and made a forum on this topic, im not for fakes but it was a fun project, im not sure if this will stop people from asking if its a good idea or not but its a start..not to mention it may help someone out who may have been ripped off and didnt even know it... its been a few years but last i heard the ibanez JEMs are the number 1 counterfeited guitar on ebay.

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Old 03-14-2014, 06:59 AM   #115
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Quote:
Originally Posted by timmymaines
okay.. first off i didnt read every reply in the forum.. second im surprised at some of the things im hearing.. these fake guitars are good?? no there not..there not even epiphone or squier good.. they will make your squier sound and play like a real american fender..if you would like i can put up pics later... but about a year maybe year an a half ago.. i was with a band a good friend of mine and the guitar player for that band. played a few different guitars such as a gibson voodoo, fender tele, an ibanez 7 string rg, ltd hm-1000.. one day he brought in a esp guitar.. which i was sure it was a esp/ltd ec-1000, but it seemed odd that it said esp on the headstock this was right before they made a esp line.. and the font was the old style font they used..not block style.. anyhow i asked him about it.. he said it was bought from another friend who ordered it off some chines web-site... now this guitar was the biggest fake i have ever come across they did a really good job at faking this.. the pickups said emg on them, the tuners said grovers, everything looked good until you got up close. now for starters it doesnt hold tune at all.. most of the time the gears in the tunning machines didnt even work.. i used grovers for years never had that problem.. the pickups i am not even goin to say it.. they werent active, they were passive..no serial number, it said esp on the head stock and it said esp on the 12th fret.. not to mention the esp was engraved in the 12th fret, just like emg was in the pickups.. turn it over the back plates werent cut out right and were set a bit too deep..this whole guitar was a night mare... anyhow.. i bought that guitar from him knowning it was a fake.. he knew it and i knew it and everyone around knows it... i replaced everything in that guitar, leaving only the wood.. not sure what kinda of wood that is used but it is sold and now after about 450 dollars it stays in tune with real tuners, real emg 81 active pickups in both the bridge and neck. that sound awesome..

however after all this is said im glad someone took time and made a forum on this topic, im not for fakes but it was a fun project, im not sure if this will stop people from asking if its a good idea or not but its a start..not to mention it may help someone out who may have been ripped off and didnt even know it... its been a few years but last i heard the ibanez JEMs are the number 1 counterfeited guitar on ebay.

WTF?

ESP has been a line much longer than LTD FYI
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Old 03-14-2014, 01:58 PM   #116
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yes your right my bad.. but whens the last time you seen a guitar with esp on the headstock that didnt cost afew thousand dollars..not to mention the guitar im talkin about didnt work like it was suppose too...
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Old 03-14-2014, 05:12 PM   #117
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Quote:
Originally Posted by timmymaines
yes your right my bad.. but whens the last time you seen a guitar with esp on the headstock that didnt cost afew thousand dollars..not to mention the guitar im talkin about didnt work like it was suppose too...

I see ESP (not LTD) guitars for $1000ish all the time (sometimes less), not any news flash there

And learn how to use paragraphs and proper punctuation.
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