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Old 05-31-2013, 06:20 AM   #1
sam b
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Lock thread

How come only mods can lock threads?

On other forums I use, if you make a thread you are able to close/lock it if you wish.

On here you can only delete your thread yourself. What if you wanna close it, but leave it on the forum?



Obviously the against argument is that a troll can make a porn/gore/whatever thread then close it, but for a mod to close it they have to go to the thread anyway, so it makes no difference if it's closed or not, as long as the report button is still available on a closed thread OP.
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Old 05-31-2013, 06:45 AM   #2
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In closing it, in a way you assert authority over everyone else's content and posts. Just because you made a thread it doesn't suddenly mean you have any right to say what is acceptable there.

I'm actually against deleting of threads by users too, for that reason. In contrast to your experience, I've seen other forums that don't allow you to delete anything and you're only allowed to edit within the space of a hour after the post has been made.

It was better here in the past when deleted threads could be recovered by mods (disabled for server reasons)


Actually thinking about it, I would be cool with users being able to close threads, if they weren't allowed to delete threads anymore. A mod can always reverse the former if abused.
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Old 05-31-2013, 07:02 AM   #3
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What if the posts that people had made in a thread that the TS closed were still able to be deleted/edited by them if they wish?

It'd simply be so that no one else could post in said thread



EDIT:

It says:

Delete Options
Do Not Delete Message
Only Physically remove available
Physically Remove Message


When I go to edit an OP (well, any post) of mine. Is the "do not delete message" option the "lock" one.. which is only available to mods, as I can't select it?
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Last edited by sam b : 05-31-2013 at 07:03 AM.
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Old 05-31-2013, 07:44 AM   #4
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I do disagree with the delete system and think it's better to have a lock option (or none). On other forums I use, I think the OP can delete the thread within 30mins or having to PM an admin to make the judgment (and get an infraction by default). That prevents some bad threads and ensures OP thinks through what he writes somewhat more.

It's not just that, for example in Tab Talk someone asks for help on a song, then you decide to tab it and spend some 30mins or so, but meanwhile OP had second thoughts and deleted the thread.
Threads that turn "bad" in the subjective eyes of OP could also be deleted or otherwise when threads don't turn out the way they expected it to (which is very often).
Of course, if someone posts themselves playing a cover hoping for positive/constructive feedback, then gets slaughtered by awfully negative comments - a mod would (probably) agree to delete it on request anyway.

Not super frequent here on the forums, but the delete option is indeed surprising - especially if you can delete a big thread you made at any time (which I think is the case, lock would be a more fair option to posters yet again - why should OP get to decide when it's over).
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Old 05-31-2013, 08:08 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sam b
What if the posts that people had made in a thread that the TS closed were still able to be deleted/edited by them if they wish?

It'd simply be so that no one else could post in said thread



EDIT:

It says:

Delete Options
Do Not Delete Message
Only Physically remove available
Physically Remove Message


When I go to edit an OP (well, any post) of mine. Is the "do not delete message" option the "lock" one.. which is only available to mods, as I can't select it?


show


that, right?

Basically in the past for users it would say just 'delete message' I think. For mods it would say that plus the 'permanently delete message' and 'do not delete' option. Before the changes, when a user would delete a post/thread, it would still appear to mods. Although, I think posts would show a 'deleted post by ---. reason: ' message to normal users. The 'permanently delete' option was there to remove it entirely (think recycle bin vs delete forever)

The basic delete was removed and users given access to the previously mod-only permanent delete option because deleted threads were sitting around hidden to you all and slowing down the servers. Apparently. (I think it's more that someone was just too lazy to do the regular forum tidy ups...)

The 'do not delete' option is a left over mess from the delete hack, as there was a whole option menu for mods, it should have been tidied up but no one really cared enough to do so. The 'reason' option is clearly pointless as well now.


Deleted threads are kind of backed up in a way but aren't capable of being restored.
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Old 05-31-2013, 08:14 AM   #6
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Oh ok Always wondered why it was there but completely useless (to me at least)

Maybe get rid of "delete" and replace it with "close/lock" is something that could be thought about then?
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Old 05-31-2013, 08:36 AM   #7
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I'd prefer that.


Just have to wait and see if the russians want to explore it though.
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Old 05-31-2013, 10:10 AM   #8
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I think the user delete function is good. A user ought to be able to remove their own thread if they don't want it to be associated with them or otherwise are finished with it.

The ability to close a thread is a great idea, since it could give a 'case closed' indicator while still keeping the thread there for others to search for. But I don't think it should replace deletion as the only choice available.
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Old 05-31-2013, 10:58 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roc8995
I think the user delete function is good. A user ought to be able to remove their own thread if they don't want it to be associated with them or otherwise are finished with it.

The ability to close a thread is a great idea, since it could give a 'case closed' indicator while still keeping the thread there for others to search for. But I don't think it should replace deletion as the only choice available.

I actually agree with this post

I know I'd want to be able to delete something if I, how he put it, "don't want to be associated" with it
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Old 05-31-2013, 11:27 AM   #10
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That's reasonable, but what about everyone's effort put into posts that gets deleted with that thread? (ignoring the idea that most discussions here are in the end pointless and have no impact on the outside world and are rarely looked back on anyway) Especially in the cases where a stupid thread goes on a tangent to what is a worthwhile discussion, I can imagine a pissy/immature threadstarter turning around and removing the whole thing. Okay, fair enough if it's a thread where the user posts something sensitive/personal and regrets it, but a mod can easily edit out such information then close or judge to delete the thread if it's too much.

I feel that people should consider the implications of starting a thread better if rather than be able to disassociate themselves from it by deleting. It's a public forum that is cached by google and many other places I'm sure, so it's not like all those posts are gone. It's just the nature of the internet that once you post something it's going to be out there for a long time. Deleting really just removes it's reference to other UG users.

Either way, the delete option is very rarely currently used, as most people stick by their bad threads. Mods are only really using it at present for adbot threads.
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Old 05-31-2013, 11:45 AM   #11
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I think that's the point, though - the delete option is very rarely used. I don't think it's a big enough problem to put the effort of the posters above the autonomy of the person who started the thread. I think the threadstarter ought to be given the option to delete the thread, having started the topic. They don't "own" the thread, but I think starting a thread gives a certain small authority to that person, and they should be allowed to remove it if they want. Sure, people should be careful about what kind of threads they start, but what about the users that are trying to get a job five years later and don't want that thread in the pit that they started showing up on a background check? It would be unreasonable to expect people to anticipate any reason they might have in the future to delete a thread. Sure, a mod can do it, but I haven't seen it abused to the point where I wouldn't trust the users with the ability.

If anything, the ability to close the thread seems like it would lead to more petty use than the deletion. Getting the last word and then locking a thread would be a much more annoying use than just deleting a thread that didn't go the way you planned.

Ideally, it could work Reddit-style, where deleting the first post just removes the identity of the poster and the content of the post, and the rest of the content stays. But I don't think that vBulletin has that kind of capability, or at least it would not be worth the work to add it. So to me the fairest option is to let the threadstarter keep that small amount of control over their topic.
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Old 05-31-2013, 12:19 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roc8995

Ideally, it could work Reddit-style, where deleting the first post just removes the identity of the poster and the content of the post, and the rest of the content stays. But I don't think that vBulletin has that kind of capability, or at least it would not be worth the work to add it. So to me the fairest option is to let the threadstarter keep that small amount of control over their topic.


I was thinking that, and I don't doubt the russians' ability to hack the hell out of vBulletin for it to work. But, people are fond of quoting the TS so you'd need to get rid of all reference too.

In cases of future employment or other privacy concerns, it's just easier to never mention your name or other personal details at any point here. The only time such issues have come up here is when someone uses a username that is tied elsewhere to their personal details. (I personally cover myself by keeping usernames different among sites)
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Old 05-31-2013, 12:24 PM   #13
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Personal details aside, I just don't think it's fair to not allow people to delete their own content. Expecting them to "know better" ahead of time in every case just doesn't seem reasonable.

I think users should have, by default, the ability to delete their own content for whatever reason they choose. It's too bad that the current system pits that against keeping content from other users, but unless that changes I think it's more important that people be able to remove their own content from the forums.
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Old 06-01-2013, 01:46 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by theguitarist
I'd prefer that.


Just have to wait and see if the russians want to explore it though.

Hey, Russians.. over here
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Old 06-06-2013, 09:05 AM   #15
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Guess they're not keen
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Old 06-06-2013, 10:12 AM   #16
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They've been quiet lately. They may not have seen this yet.
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