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Old 10-28-2012, 09:51 PM   #1
xAfflictionx
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Bla-bla-bla I wanna Shred!! But need help

So i wanna play crazy solos like A7X does but i cant for the life of me figure out how to get that fast. Are there any ways to kinda train myself to get ready for that kinda thing? Maybe some advice on how to alternate pick? Thanks guys
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Old 10-28-2012, 10:06 PM   #2
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Practice for hours a day for years.
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Old 10-28-2012, 10:08 PM   #3
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Basically, shredding is playing fast. To play fast, focus on economy of motion and relaxation. Make sure your hand movements are only as large as they absolutely need to be and be sure to relax absolutely everything you can.

Excess tension gives the illusion of providing speed, but tensing up loses you all semblance of fine control. By focusing on economy of motion and relaxation, you will be controlled and deliberate in your movements regardless of tempo, which is absolutely key to playing at high speed.
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Old 10-28-2012, 10:28 PM   #4
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learn to tremolo pick, then learn to do it across strings
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Old 10-28-2012, 10:38 PM   #5
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Play extended solos using every trick and lick ya know and act like a huge a-hole

You are now a shredder

Try youtube for video lessons, there's plenty of them there

And listen to the the next poster>
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Old 10-28-2012, 10:40 PM   #6
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firstly, a7x and Synyster Gates is not the epitome of fast guitar, don't fall into the trap of thinking that like many youngsters do nowdays. Firstly, check out paul gilbert and
john petrucci. these guys will be right down your alley with fast alternate picked playing.

broaden your horizons with al dimeola, shawn lane and guthrie govan for more fusion guitar ides. and eric johnson and joe satriani for blues rock ideas. music phrasing ideas aren't entirely genre specific. you could use blues ideas in metal if you want, it all depends on what you feel is natural for yourself.

there are many others, but this is a good foundation for fast guitar playing that isn't complete bullshit.

anyway, on to learning how to play fast. First thing is to realise its not an over night process, its a process that takes years of practice. A lot of the students i get want to play fast but realise they haven't gotten there after a few months and quit. you really need to get yourself into the psyche of constant proper practice. starting with at least 1-2 hours a day, moving up to at least 6. pretty much all fast guitarists have spent at least 1 year of their training doing up to 10-12 hours a day.

Secondly you need to address the idea of economy of movement. what this means is that the smaller movements you make, the less effort you will need to play fast. Imagine you are plucking the string, you really don't need to go more than 1mm past the string, anything past that is wasted movement.

this brings up the idea of tension.

A lot (and i mean a lot) of people assume that to play fast, you need to go fast. And how they do this is by tensing certain parts of there body, like stiffening their arm and letting it shake and go wild. This is not how to play fast, that's how to get shitty technique and injury. You don't play fast by being fast. you play fast by being economical with your movement and using as little tension as possible.

grab your pick, hold your arms out in front of you and let them drop. by drop i mean go dead. While your arms are dangling, feel the lack of tension, how none of the muscles are tense. This is what it should feel like whilst playing, this is how all the fastest guitarists feel whilst playing fast. if it doesn't, they you are doing it wrong.

There are several methods of picking the string when it comes to alternate picking. However the general consensus is that picking from either the wrist or the fingers produces the best results with the least tension. Most people say don't pick from the elbow, it can lead to bad injury.



here pebber brown goes over 2 types of picking, scalpel and sarod. scalpel comes mostly from the movement of the fingers, sarod is more of a shaking of the wrist motion. if you don't know pebber brown, he taught buckethead. I would advice checking a lot of his videos out. it will take you a few weeks or a few months to get the mechanics of one of these down, eventually you may find both of these techniques suit different phrasing ideas, and you might want to interchange between both of them.

thirdly, is what to play. There seems to be 2 sides to the speed coin, or 2 arguments about how you should approach learning guitar. The first side is a genre specific approach. This idea states that if you play a genre, like blues or jazz, long enough you will develop technical speed over time and have the added bonus of being able to play a genre of music.

The second side states that you should break music down into bytes of technical information. As in, playing a scale or multiple scales or phrasing ideas in 4 notes per beat, 5 notes per beat, 6 notes per beat, at different tempos in different timings. The advantage of this side is that you gain technical dependency quicker. However this doesn't cater as much to the musical and compositional side of things.

I would recommend thinking about what music you would like to play, and developing your own approach using these ideas. Further more, don't shut yourself off to just 1 type of music. Really indulge yourself into all types of music and sub genres. classical, jazz, fusion, blues, rock, metal. and all the hundreds of sub genres and geographical takes on them (ie eastern/western).

So from here i would say you should start learning about intervals, and how scales are derived from them. You should learn your major scale, all over the neck and pentatonic scale. Over time you will learn how these 2 scales fit into each other and how to adjust them by adding or changing intervals (like adding the blues note to pentatonic, or modal notes to pentatonic). You should start by playing them at about 60 beats per minute 4 notes per beat and slowly working your way up.

Finally understand what music is constructed out of, which is rhythm, harmony, and melody. Learn your harmony, how triads are built, how 4th voicings are built, 5th, 6th and so on and what are the tonalities of certain combined intervals. How harmonized chords are created and how harmonized progressions are created (later on you can take a non modal approach to chord structures). And of course how scalular ideas fit back on top of the harmony as a melody, and how to apply rhythm to both the melody and harmony.


I think thats a lot to take in, but a decent outline for learning how to play fast but not sound like complete wank. Have fun.

Last edited by jsync : 10-28-2012 at 10:47 PM.
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Old 10-29-2012, 05:27 AM   #7
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Beside practice, I think that making sure that all the notes are played accurately and sounds clear is also important. There's no point is playing fast, but sloppy.
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Old 10-29-2012, 07:46 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jsync
firstly, a7x and Synyster Gates is not the epitome of fast guitar, don't fall into the trap of thinking that like many youngsters do nowdays. Firstly, check out paul gilbert and
john petrucci. these guys will be right down your alley with fast alternate picked playing.

broaden your horizons with al dimeola, shawn lane and guthrie govan for more fusion guitar ides. and eric johnson and joe satriani for blues rock ideas. music phrasing ideas aren't entirely genre specific. you could use blues ideas in metal if you want, it all depends on what you feel is natural for yourself.

there are many others, but this is a good foundation for fast guitar playing that isn't complete bullshit.

Everything else you said is pretty agreeable, but this bit here is just outright bad.

If the dude wants to learn to play fast so that he can play A7X, that's his thing. Don't insist that he's wrong and his music is wank and he should learn to play Shawn Lane. The dude's allowed to have his own taste.
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Old 10-29-2012, 09:26 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Geldin
Everything else you said is pretty agreeable, but this bit here is just outright bad.

If the dude wants to learn to play fast so that he can play A7X, that's his thing. Don't insist that he's wrong and his music is wank and he should learn to play Shawn Lane. The dude's allowed to have his own taste.


Oh no no no that's not what i meant. The part about wank was just about the result of learning with out musical motive and with only a small amount of influence. Not in any way shape or form writing off A7X.

What i mean is that each player uses different musical ideas, techniques so forth and that he should expose himself to as many players as possible, and take from each whatever he needs to get to the place he wants to be. I think its always a good thing to take in all sorts of musical knowledge. Over all it will help you to become a more learned player. Or at least give you an idea of who it is you are as a player.

I recommended paul gilbert and john petrucci straight up because each not only have a greater body of music, but their musical ideas are a lot easier to find in lesson format.

You can go ahead and say 'its his thing', but as a teacher i feel obliged to say that focusing on emulating solely one 1 musician can and their music can inhibit the development of the persons own musical identity. And the way to remedy this is to widen the amount of influence he has, even if its from people of a similar genre. I believe his goal was to play 'like' AX7 not straight out play AX7.

I hate seeing students who get upset because they learned to play songs but can't create their own music. and that is a common thing with people who only focus on the music of 1 band.

Developing creativity takes time and a lot of influence. And if you don't to take influence from a lot of people, then you are better off taking influence from someone who has produced a larger variety of creativity. Me being me, wouldn't put synyster gates in that category.

That is the reason i said he is not the epitome of fast guitar. Because there is really not much to learn from him. And you will develop faster as a musician if you learn from more developed musicians.

I do always say to my students that they should always find their own approach to guitar and music. But there is a level of shelter that is inherent with the lack of exposure other musicians have. From experience, i don't think its a good thing, and he will reach his goal faster if he breaks out of it, even just by a little bit.
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Old 10-29-2012, 09:59 AM   #10
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Thanks everyone for the great advice. Does anyone have any advice on like lessons I could do? Should I start with arpeggios? Or alternate picking? I just don't know where to start, maybe one will help with another?

The reason I like synyster gates and a7x is because that's the kind of music I enjoy. I do think he is a great guitarist and I could listen to him play for hours and it just amazes me with how fast he plays and the music he produces. I'm not Sayin he is the only guitarist I like and I'm open to learn from other style of players as well but that is the style I'm going for. I know it's gonna take a while and it's not gonna happen overnight although that would be BA, I think learning is fun.
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Old 10-29-2012, 10:30 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xAfflictionx
Thanks everyone for the great advice. Does anyone have any advice on like lessons I could do? Should I start with arpeggios? Or alternate picking? I just don't know where to start, maybe one will help with another?

It depends on how much you know right now.

Do you know your basic open chords, major/minor pentatonic scales, and major/minor diatonic scales? Those are important to your learning down the road, so if you don't know them, learn 'em.

Right now, as far as technique goes, Synyster Gates uses two techniques really extensively in his playing: alternate picking and sweep picking. The thing to focus with both techniques is economy of motion and hand synchronization. While he's not the fastest guitarist on earth, Gates does move along pretty quickly. Establishing good synchronization will make it possible to play cleanly and deliberately at those higher tempos.

Learning alternate picking is a good start. Alternate picking is the bread-and-butter technique for metal guitarists. Emphasize small pick strokes and relaxation in your playing. Make sure that your hands are synchronized and you're only playing notes that are fretted properly. Be sure to practice at a low enough tempo that you can focus your attention on these details.
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Old 10-29-2012, 10:48 AM   #12
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Use your time wisely. Think about how much time a day you can dedicate and split your learning up. heres an idea of a schedule http://www.myguitarsolo.com/content/schedule

Firstly, learn the note names on at least the first 2 strings. Then spend a good amount of time memorizing your scales. just start with both the pentatonic scale and the major scale. Here are some sheets for them:

The major scale shapes: http://www.myguitarsolo.com/categories/guitar-scales

Minor pentatonic shapes: http://www.guitarcommand.com/wp-con...rams-guitar.gif

If these look confusing, don't worry. They arranged themselves one after the other on the neck. like this

Minor pentatonic: http://www.eguitarscales.com/wp-con...tonic_scale.gif

same with the major scale. These are a good basis for technique and musical ideas. Basically all western music stems from the major scale. and the pentatonic scale has 5 of the 7 notes you find in the major scale. You will find some people going further and using things like the harmonic minor scale or the melodic minor scale, or the bebop scale or blues scale and so on. but once you learn the major and pentatonic scales, you will be able to adjust them to turn them into other scales. really it saves a lot of time.

memorize these then practice to backing tracks. just go up and down, over time you can start doing more crazy things with them. In terms of developing speed, watch this:


There's tabs for that on the internet too. just search it up. John goes over many ideas and practice methods for improving speed in this.

Once again, in terms of what to play, search up licks, songs, ideas. always listen to as much as you can from shit loads of people. if There's something you like, try and use your ear to work it out, or search for a tab. Youtube and google are your friend and an invaluable tool. That list of guitarists i mentioned, go to youtube and search each one up and have a look at their technique and music, you may find some of the stuff useful.

I would suggest you start learning basic theory, just intervals, scales, how chords are derived from them, and how the tonalities of the chords sound over what scale or what group of notes. https://www.youtube.com/user/JustinSandercoe this guy is pretty cool, go through a bunch of his lessons.
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Old 10-29-2012, 10:52 AM   #13
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If nothing else, definitely watch Rock Discipline. It's one of the very best instructional DVDs out there, even if you're like me and can't stand Dream Theater. Justin Sandercore is a great instructor for basic technique as well.
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Old 10-29-2012, 10:57 AM   #14
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So I know my chords, a good bit of them but wow.... I looked up those links and I'm so lost haha I have no idea what the penatonic scale is... I know this sounds dumb but do I play those? What do I play or what are they? There just looks like so much is goin on.
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Old 10-29-2012, 11:13 AM   #15
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basically you pick a root note. the root note is usually inherent to the key your in, so if you were in the key of a (or a minor in this case), a will be your root. you can see on the pentatonic chart:

http://www.guitarcommand.com/wp-con...rams-guitar.gif

that some of the dots have the letter r in them. that means root.

now you need to imagine that this is the guitar neck, in that last picture the guitar is vertical. but just tilt your head if you need to.

the left side is the low e string, and the right side is the high e string (or if it was horizontal like the major scales, the bottom line is the low e). the boxes represent frets, and the dots represent the notes you play.

so take shape number 1 here:
http://www.guitarcommand.com/wp-con...rams-guitar.gif

lets imagine you pick the root of a, so 5th fret e string. you play it out like a shape. so 1st note, is the 5th fret, next note is 3 frets up, so thats the 8th fret. then on the next string (the a string) you have the 5th and 7th, then 5th and 7th on the next string and so forth.

so if it was starting on a, you would have something like this for the first shape:

-------------------------5-8--------
--------------------5-8-----------
---------------5-7----------------
----------5-7----------------------
-----5-7---------------------------
5-8------------------------------


and that is 1 shape of the minor pentatonic in a. the next box pattern will start on the last note of the previous patter. So where you have 5-8 on the first pattern, the next one will be 8-10.

it works like that. these are all the same 5 notes btw, repeated all over the neck. its been split up into these patterns to make it easy to learn. If you still haven't got it, just google tabs for those scales.

One goal of most guitarists is to pound these shapes into your brain. Once they are there you can start going through them and creating melodies, fast or slow. I should say, playing and learning licks will help the memorisation process. If you like the style of AX7, andy james did a booklet of synyster gates styled licks:


http://www.licklibrary.com/store/an...tal-key-d-minor

or you could find free stuff online, what ever works.

Last edited by jsync : 10-29-2012 at 11:20 AM.
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Old 10-29-2012, 01:01 PM   #16
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Geldin pretty much nailed it with his first post.

Also Synyster Gates uses economy picking which reduces amount the of unnecessary movements, so I'd say that's worth checking out. Although a lot of the community here like to stick to strictly alternate picking.

You really just have to practice, start slow then speed it up. Maybe download a GP or Powertab of your favorite Avenged Song/Solo, reduce the tempo and play along trying to speed it up or just practice with a metronome.
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Old 10-29-2012, 01:24 PM   #17
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That's the stuff I wanna play. So I'm gonna try to do the penatonic scale, do I only keep one finger on the fretboard at a time? Or is there a set way to play them?
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Old 10-29-2012, 01:39 PM   #18
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You'r realy a long way from this my friend!

Start by learning to play overall, you have many techniques in this,
not to talk about the scales themselves, and the arpegio.

So, if you want to "play like this", you should learn:
-Arpregio shapes
-Minor Panthatonic scale
-I think I saw some melodic minor scale in there
-Hammer on/pull off technique
-Tremolo picking
-String sweeps
-Legato
-Bending

So, if you want to "schredd", learn to play, then practice. A lot!
Don't lose patience and don't think you will become good over night. You might be very talented and acheive greatness in no time, but for this, you have to learn first.
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