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Old 12-19-2012, 11:02 AM   #21
Huge Guy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Axe Murderer
Ok guys. Take the player out of the equation.

Theres a pricing heirarchy that usually points to the level of quality/craftsmanship on a guitar.

What Phank wrote is pretty close when you JUST consider the instrument.

Originally Posted by phank
Under $1000 - beginner
$1000-$2000 - intermediate
over $2000 - advanced.


Yeah but even with this you are gonna find vast differences between a starter pack guitar and something that costs close to $1000.

I own a Lyon by Washburn and an Epi Prophesy Futura...both were well under $1000 I would not lump these together in the same category.
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Old 12-19-2012, 01:16 PM   #22
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The pricing thing doesn't make any sense. $1000 gets you a super nice telecaster, but if you play jazz a decent 'intermediate' jazzbox is a couple grand and an "advanced" one often costs five figures. In the middle, if you need a floyd and some EMGs it's going to be more expensive than a Tele for a decent instrument but less than a jazzbox.

Basically, with similar instruments you could probably have a general range for each level of playability. But for the most part, a beginner instrument is one that makes sound and covers the basic necessities, an advanced guitar has enough function and comfort for any reasonably demanding person, and an intermediate guitar falls somewhere in between. Putting an arbitrary dollar amount on it doesn't make any sense.
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Old 12-19-2012, 02:16 PM   #23
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I always thought "beginner" meant "first guitar" type instruents, you know the Squiers, LP Special II, that sort of thing.
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Old 12-19-2012, 04:03 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by T00DEEPBLUE
I don't think there should be such clear cut definition of beginner/intermediate/pro. The aspects that make a guitar great really depends far too much on the player, making the area too gray and subjective for such 'categories' to really exist.

You could consider a certain computer, for example, to be a 'pro' computer because it's capabilities can be accurately measured against other computers, but you can't do that at all with guitars, that's why i don't think it should exist.

You could argue that the flame on a guitar's top is a more heavily figured flame, but i personally don't like overly-flamed tops; They just look gaudy, kinda like a tie that's got diamonds encrusted all over it. But that's my personal preference. To try to give defined sanctions between guitars implies how much you will enjoy the guitar, and sometimes that's not always true. It might be true with computers, but it isn't necessarily true with guitars.


oh i agree that it doesn't say whether or not you'll like the guitar (and i'd agree the figured top doesn't make it a better guitar- but that's tops, not just overall wood). But i still think that there are clear distinctions between instruments which are pretty clear. You only have to look at brands' model lineups to see this. it's pretty clear their marketing departments know how to sell guitars to different demographics. To suggest that's not happening... is silly, frankly. It suggests you don't understand how business, economics and marketing work.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Roc8995
The pricing thing doesn't make any sense. $1000 gets you a super nice telecaster, but if you play jazz a decent 'intermediate' jazzbox is a couple grand and an "advanced" one often costs five figures. In the middle, if you need a floyd and some EMGs it's going to be more expensive than a Tele for a decent instrument but less than a jazzbox.

Basically, with similar instruments you could probably have a general range for each level of playability. But for the most part, a beginner instrument is one that makes sound and covers the basic necessities, an advanced guitar has enough function and comfort for any reasonably demanding person, and an intermediate guitar falls somewhere in between. Putting an arbitrary dollar amount on it doesn't make any sense.


oh i agree wholeheartedly that you can't put a specific dollar amount on it. I'm talking more in terms of spec and how good the guitar is, basically.
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Old 12-19-2012, 08:20 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Axe Murderer
Ok guys. Take the player out of the equation.

Theres a pricing heirarchy that usually points to the level of quality/craftsmanship on a guitar.

What Phank wrote is pretty close when you JUST consider the instrument.

Originally Posted by phank
Under $1000 - beginner
$1000-$2000 - intermediate
over $2000 - advanced.


so a Gibson SG Standard is just an intermediate guitar. i'm thinking there a a fair amount of pros that would diagree with that ascertion. my Strat Plus is pro quality in every way and cost way less than 2 grand new. those #s just don't work.
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Old 12-19-2012, 08:40 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave_Mc
oh i agree that it doesn't say whether or not you'll like the guitar (and i'd agree the figured top doesn't make it a better guitar- but that's tops, not just overall wood). But i still think that there are clear distinctions between instruments which are pretty clear. You only have to look at brands' model lineups to see this. it's pretty clear their marketing departments know how to sell guitars to different demographics. To suggest that's not happening... is silly, frankly. It suggests you don't understand how business, economics and marketing work.

It does work, i'm just not convinced by the marketing until i pick the guitar up for myself, play it and make my own decisions.
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Old 12-19-2012, 08:43 PM   #27
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You are all wrong.

Its Abalone.
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Old 12-19-2012, 09:03 PM   #28
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^ lol

Quote:
Originally Posted by T00DEEPBLUE
It does work, i'm just not convinced by the marketing until i pick the guitar up for myself, play it and make my own decisions.


oh of course. and i'd agree that often they may spec something up to con you it's high end when it's not. but they tend to do that more to lower end models as well.
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Old 12-19-2012, 09:10 PM   #29
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Originally Posted by Tom 1.0
You are all wrong.

Its Abalone.

and coil tapz.
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Originally Posted by Dave_Mc
oh of course. and i'd agree that often they may spec something up to con you it's high end when it's not. but they tend to do that more to lower end models as well.

I still think the area is too gray to really be a useful scale.
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Old 12-19-2012, 09:22 PM   #30
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Any guitar intentionally built intentionally to be 2nd best to flagship model or those of the brand or just generally aimed at a certain affordable price point intermediate by definition. Certain exemptions exist such as various variants of a similar guitar i.e Gibson Standards and RI guitars.


if anybody tries to me expensive Agiles or Chapman guitars are high end I will find you and I will kill you.
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Old 12-19-2012, 09:44 PM   #31
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I'm not saying a correlation doesn't exist, its just that the spectrum is so clouded with subjective opinion that such a scale wouldn't be too useful.
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Old 12-20-2012, 05:14 AM   #32
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I skimmed after the first few posts, but it looks like people are confusing skill level with quality level. That's a big mistake, as quality is objective, while skill can't be universally measured.

I personally have a quality category system that a lot of people have agreed with, I think it's pretty accurate:

$0-300 - Beginner/Entry level (starter packs, Gios, Epi Specials, etc.)
$300-450 - low end (Ibanez & LTD standard, Epi Studio)
$450-700 - mid end (Epi std, LTD std, Fender MIM)
$700-1000 - upper mid end (LTD Deluxe, Schecter Blackjack/Hellraiser, Gibson Studio)
$1000 - 3000 - high end (Ibanez Prestige, Gibson Std, ESP Std, Fender/Jackson/PRS MIA)
$3000+ - upper high end (Ibanez J Custom, Gibson Custom, ESP Original/Custom, Suhr, Caparison, PRS Private)
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Old 12-20-2012, 09:39 AM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Offworld92
I skimmed after the first few posts, but it looks like people are confusing skill level with quality level. That's a big mistake, as quality is objective, while skill can't be universally measured.

I personally have a quality category system that a lot of people have agreed with, I think it's pretty accurate:

$0-300 - Beginner/Entry level (starter packs, Gios, Epi Specials, etc.)
$300-450 - low end (Ibanez & LTD standard, Epi Studio)
$450-700 - mid end (Epi std, LTD std, Fender MIM)
$700-1000 - upper mid end (LTD Deluxe, Schecter Blackjack/Hellraiser, Gibson Studio)
$1000 - 3000 - high end (Ibanez Prestige, Gibson Std, ESP Std, Fender/Jackson/PRS MIA)
$3000+ - upper high end (Ibanez J Custom, Gibson Custom, ESP Original/Custom, Suhr, Caparison, PRS Private)


It looks like you are confusing price with quality level. That list does do a decent job of illustrating the various price points though.
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Old 12-20-2012, 10:36 AM   #34
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I don't think you can classify guitars the same way you classify guitarists. There are entry level(sometimes called beginner) guitars. Generally these have lower quality parts and are for people who don't want to shell out a bunch of money for a hobby they just started and might drop. After that its what people figure they want for sound, comfort, quality versus what they can afford.
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Old 12-20-2012, 10:56 AM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SteveHOC
I've been playing guitar for over a decade and have never had to drop a grand on a guitar.
I'm pretty sure I'm not categorized as a beginner


I think the point was more about the gear. You may not be a beginner, but playing anything that cost under $1000 (unless you've scored a really nice used buy) will probably be aimed at beginners/amatuers.
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Old 12-20-2012, 11:30 AM   #36
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JUST considering the instrument like a piece of art I'd say the more $$$ the better quality materials.
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Old 12-20-2012, 02:18 PM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by T00DEEPBLUE
I still think the area is too gray to really be a useful scale.


i don't think it is. I wouldn't say i'm totally unbiased (lol) but i'm perfectly capable of determining if something is a good guitar even if, personally, i don't really like it. how well it's made, how well the frets are dressed, how good the wood/hardware/electronics are, etc. etc. etc. are all pretty much objective.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Offworld92
I skimmed after the first few posts, but it looks like people are confusing skill level with quality level. That's a big mistake, as quality is objective, while skill can't be universally measured.

I personally have a quality category system that a lot of people have agreed with, I think it's pretty accurate:

$0-300 - Beginner/Entry level (starter packs, Gios, Epi Specials, etc.)
$300-450 - low end (Ibanez & LTD standard, Epi Studio)
$450-700 - mid end (Epi std, LTD std, Fender MIM)
$700-1000 - upper mid end (LTD Deluxe, Schecter Blackjack/Hellraiser, Gibson Studio)
$1000 - 3000 - high end (Ibanez Prestige, Gibson Std, ESP Std, Fender/Jackson/PRS MIA)
$3000+ - upper high end (Ibanez J Custom, Gibson Custom, ESP Original/Custom, Suhr, Caparison, PRS Private)


agreed. I might not agree with all the brands you put there (i'd put caparison in with the high end, not upper high end, stuff) and the exact price brands might be slightly different here in europe. But as a broad generalisation, I agree. I'd even agree broadly with pretty much all the brands you put there aside from caparison.

yes, there are exception, and yes, some things are better value than others. But as a rule of thumb, it's pretty sound. The other thing is, once you've tried the obvious guitars which obviously fit into certain brackets, that makes you better able to place guitars which you're unsure about.
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