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Old 06-18-2015, 08:51 PM   #5041
merriman44
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Ah, that's good news. That means we know what is going on and can thus correct it.

Avoid the chord grindy sound as much as you can. I believe that what is going on is that your true folds are slamming together much the same that your false cords can during nasty growling. The unfortunate thing is (and I'm sure you know) that your false cords can grow back while the true folds are much more delicate.

So focus on isolating on what I identified as your false cord tone and avoid the other. Best of luck, it gets easier!
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Old 06-20-2015, 09:22 PM   #5042
gorkyporky
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Does anyone else find preforming cover songs difficult? I can do grit in various degrees, full screaming and clean singing. When i do songs that i wrote, its simple. I dont have much of a problem transitioning between different modes of singing, and i can hit all of the notes that i have to sing, even when my lines (that were written by me) go to the edge of my vocal range.

When i get to covers, its a completely different thing. Screams always sound way different than the original song. I have trouble hitting the clean singing parts even if they are well within my range. If there's grit singing, i just fail in doing that, and i usually mees up the entire song when i try covering grit. I know the screams will probably sound different, because my voice is differnet than the original song that im covering, but still.

It just feels weird when i KNOW i can do better, because i can sing higher and better when i do original songs, and scream better and more violent, but when i actualy cover songs, i just cant do it. For example, my band decided to play Roots bloody roots. A simple song, but just screaming it causes me to feel pain in my throat. Doesnt matter if its the first song we play or the last one in the set. And its just basic screaming. What the ****? It seems like i have a mental block of whatever, but im not really sure how to get around it. Any ideas?
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Old 06-20-2015, 10:07 PM   #5043
merriman44
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Sounds like you are trying to mimic tonality. Just own the song in your own way. When I get stuck like that, I change up everything except the lyrics. Forget the original until you are comfortable and tge n walk it back to an acceptable level.
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Old 06-22-2015, 11:59 PM   #5044
WaystotheGrove
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Hi everyone, I found this thread a few days ago while looking for Growling technique over the web.
Since I just appeared maybe a quick background, (sorry for all the repetitions you may encounter, i'll just plainly share my research)

I've been wanting to growl and scream for a few years and only managed to do fry sounds, and only in a quiet (let's say sitting) position inside, as soon as I get up and walk outside it just becomes impossible to do anything.
Now the fun part is that instead of screaming or growling this lead me to an interesting ability to do throat singing quite easily, so I kind of switched from metal to polyphonic Mongolian songs if you know what I mean (not sure I do, but here's some good sample, not even Mongolian, a guy called Eric Zehnder https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YVzbVvfDVLA


So back to growling, concerning technique a few point I got so far, can you maybe please help correcting? thanks
– Fry is a sound that can be felt up and down in the throat, but it should be felt at the level above the mouth, maybe behind the eyes, tongue is relaxed with its back up against soft palate and the cavity above where they touch should be where the fry sound comes from. Very little air with high pressure needed.
I find a position that makes exercising fry much easier: lying on my back, it seems to force the diaphragm into work, so that's good I guess?
Now it seems that the fry is thus created on a falsetto voice (question, I have read somewhere that we should NEVER do that, fry on the falsetto, that it will ruin our singing range... opinion?)
So far I can get an interesting sound when all relaxed, but as soon as I'm up and running this ability goes away.. (help?)

– Growling, so that's waaaay more complicated in my case.
Many videos of people telling you to make a "clear your throat sound" but since I've never done it (heard it's bad for the vocal folds) when I try I just kill everything and it hurts like hell (so only tried maybe once or twice this way)
Many say "do an Angry sigh", sorry, nothing but air here !
I've seen some people explaining that the growl should first be like a low fry sound and then gradually push more air through it, but this actually ruins my throat too, a bit like whispering kills your chords.
Now I feel like I've managed to activate something by doing the following exercise:with throat as relaxed as can be "scream with a lot of diaphragm pressure and loudly the word "CALL", seems like the C consonant creates a resistance that helps building air pressure for a proper use of the diaphragm.. so, this "CALL" word, I can get a pretty similar sound or effect by "Barking like a dog", yeah finally, get distortion, doesn't hurt but it's freaking LOUD (is it supposed to be loud? can't do it lightly)
I've been doing this for a week maybe and also got this exercise where I just do "small jumps up and down screaming vowels a,e,i,o,u,oo every two jumps when my feet hit the ground" and getting this distortion, feeling almost above the throat in the back, doesn't hurt.
I'm hoping that's actually the false chords activated, but I'm not sure, and basically scared to be completely wrong. (help?)

So as you can see, not much conclusive yet, but I was hoping to find some advice around and get some opinions from people who know how the process of learning it goes.

As my reference growl I list: Mikael ArableField from Opeth; Randy Blythe from Lamb of God

p.s. I got a lot of exercises from Zen Of Screaming (it's very good teaching, but basically need to sort out the exercises from what's just a long advertisement for her actual course) but also all around youtube, a lot of randomness, I think, such as "drink milk" or this or this, nope. Water only, hydration is the only issue here, what you drink won't ever touch the vocal folds otherwise we'd all choke to death. Also what we drink takes time to actually hydrate the cords so better be hydrated beforehand.
Caffeine and alcohol are your enemies
Cope the mic? well yeah if you need to, safety before looking cool
"If it hurts you're doing it wrong" is my rule number one, it's a bit maddening to read messages of people saying "yeah so first I made my throat bleed, then it was okay, so if it hurts it's all right" that's just how you'll get people with permanent damage.
Enough sleep, Cardio exercise (running)

Practice regularly
ah and I love the idea that behind screaming is actually a search fo the baby in us (they never lose their voice, perfect technique no?) and somehow we unlearn this ability because of stress, or because we're more preoccupied by how we look than how we feel while growing up and we start breathing wrong)

Well, that's pretty much it from what I gathered from all over the place..


Thank you in advance for any kind of help you may contribute!

Last edited by WaystotheGrove : 06-23-2015 at 01:49 AM.
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Old 06-23-2015, 09:49 AM   #5045
merriman44
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Loud is fine. If it doesn't hurt you are fine.

Unfortunately, in many cases no pain no gain. You may have to hurt yourself, take a break to heal, and then resume experimenting.

Fry falsetto can be fine but you really have to watch the pressure.

The reason CALL works is that it promotes cord closure which is what you need for false cord.

Finally, if you are looking for opeth or Blythe sound, you have to learn fry. You will never make a false cord sound like those fry screamers.
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Old 06-23-2015, 10:50 AM   #5046
WaystotheGrove
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wow, I always thought Opeth was false cords growl

Thanks for quick reply, very encouraging
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Old 06-23-2015, 01:28 PM   #5047
merriman44
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Ah crap, you're right about opeth. I had them confused with another group. It's false cord alright.
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Old 06-26-2015, 09:27 PM   #5048
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@WaystotheGrove I can throat sing too. While throat singing, you should be able to isolate and feel your false chords. Which will help in turn when trying to scream using *only* the false chords.

As merriman mentioned though, no pain no gain. I had the same train of thought as you before and had to convince myself that hurting my vocal chords a bit would be worth being able to scream properly. (Not saying to destroy your voice though)

It seems false chord screaming can be only learning through experimenting. Which involves pushing air through your throat at high speed and pressure without knowing what to do with it. You ought to hurt yourself in the process of learning. But, with time, you will learn to isolate the false chords from your vocal chords.
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Old 07-01-2015, 10:30 PM   #5049
WaystotheGrove
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Thanks for the tips, very useful, quite an improvement so far

I noticed a good way to know if I'm doing this right: exercise false cords with the mouth closed, this way it's easier to focus on the feeling and the movement instead of being mislead by trying to make it sound good, and once it feels right with mouth closed then it's fine when I open it. I'm having fun now imitating the chewbacca sound with false cords
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