Go Back   UG Community @ Ultimate-Guitar.Com > Instruments > Bass Guitar
User Name  
Password
Search:

Reply
Old 02-14-2013, 09:14 AM   #21
Ziphoblat
Hazardous
 
Ziphoblat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: England
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rawshik
Wouldn't it be possible to directly connect the amp head into the PA? So I wouldn't need a DI?


It depends on the particular amp. It's fairly standard to have a DI onboard a bass amp but it's worth checking to be sure. You should also remember that depending on the amp the DI isn't always great quality.
__________________
Save a Cow,
Eat a Vegan.
Ziphoblat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-14-2013, 12:40 PM   #22
John Swift
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Sheffield England
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ziphoblat
A good 2x10 is as good as a 4x10. Or a 2x12 (my personal favourite).
Regarding wattage, I used to gig regularly with a loud drummer running an amp at 75 watts and still had quite a bit of headroom. Not what I'd recommend you do, but my point is that wattage doesn't automatically equal loudness. That was a particularly loud amp for its wattage.

My Bold= pretty sweeping statement.

Don't know what eq you use but for backline 75 watts is nowhere near powerful for anything using a decent amount of bass on the EQ.
I personally wouldn't go on a live gig with no FOH support with just 75 watts, maybe for clangy no depth stuff but for Hotel California no way.
__________________
G&L L2500
Squier Affinity Jazz Bass 5
Ashdown RPM pre-amp
Ashdown Little Giant 1000
300 watt 15" powered cab
450 watt 15" powered sub bass cab
2x10 + horn
1x15x10 + horn
John Swift is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-14-2013, 12:43 PM   #23
John Swift
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Sheffield England
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rawshik
Wow, lots of good replies here! I have pretty much everything that you guys said except for a DI box and a decent amp. I'm currently using a Peavey TNT 130 that's done the job for practice with bands but it can't really get much louder because it's light that tells me I'm over doing it usually comes on if I go just slightly louder.

So I guess I need to be looking into a new amp then. Can someone explain the difference between volume and wattage? Generally, can't I go by the wattage number to determine how loud something is gonna be?


Look at and digest the replies by anarkee like me she's been around the block a few times.
__________________
G&L L2500
Squier Affinity Jazz Bass 5
Ashdown RPM pre-amp
Ashdown Little Giant 1000
300 watt 15" powered cab
450 watt 15" powered sub bass cab
2x10 + horn
1x15x10 + horn
John Swift is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-14-2013, 12:48 PM   #24
Ziphoblat
Hazardous
 
Ziphoblat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: England
Quote:
Originally Posted by John Swift
My Bold= pretty sweeping statement.

Don't know what eq you use but for backline 75 watts is nowhere near powerful for anything using a decent amount of bass on the EQ.
I personally wouldn't go on a live gig with no FOH support with just 75 watts, maybe for clangy no depth stuff but for Hotel California no way.


Sweeping statement it may be, my point was that number of speakers is not the only factor in how loud a cabinet can be, and as such well designed speakers in a well designed enclosure can result in a 2x10 easily matching a less efficient 4x10, and can certainly be more than sufficient for most gigs.

And I can assure you there was plenty of body/depth to the sound. No cut lower frequencies and still headroom to spare. It wasn't the sort of tone that makes your chest hurt, but then those sorts of tones sound atrocious anyway. I don't claim that most amplifiers of the same wattage can manage that, and as I said it wasn't ideal, but it demonstrates what an amp that was particularly loud for its wattage can do.
__________________
Save a Cow,
Eat a Vegan.
Ziphoblat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-14-2013, 01:22 PM   #25
John Swift
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Sheffield England
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ziphoblat
It wasn't the sort of tone that makes your chest hurt, but then those sorts of tones sound atrocious anyway..


Once again a sweeping statement, I play in a Multi Genre band where my gear has to be able to accommodate many styles/sounds without depending on FOH assistance.
__________________
G&L L2500
Squier Affinity Jazz Bass 5
Ashdown RPM pre-amp
Ashdown Little Giant 1000
300 watt 15" powered cab
450 watt 15" powered sub bass cab
2x10 + horn
1x15x10 + horn
John Swift is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-14-2013, 01:31 PM   #26
John Swift
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Sheffield England
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ziphoblat
Sweeping statement it may be, my point was that number of speakers is not the only factor in how loud a cabinet can be, and as such well designed speakers in a well designed enclosure can result in a 2x10 easily matching a less efficient 4x10, and can certainly be more than sufficient for most gigs.
Nobody can deny that well designed speakers and cabs are good but complex designs are usually both large, heavy and expensive, they came into popularity when speakers couldn't handle high wattages.
For 90% of my gigs I use a self build 1x15 cab made of 12mm braced Ply loaded with a 450 watt Eminence Neo driven by an Ashdown Little Giant 1000, I'm never short on volume plus it is incredibly light.
In the past I've used a 120 watt Orange into a 200 watt Gauss speaker loaded in a 'W folded horn' cab which was big, heavy and expensive.
__________________
G&L L2500
Squier Affinity Jazz Bass 5
Ashdown RPM pre-amp
Ashdown Little Giant 1000
300 watt 15" powered cab
450 watt 15" powered sub bass cab
2x10 + horn
1x15x10 + horn

Last edited by John Swift : 02-14-2013 at 01:41 PM.
John Swift is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-14-2013, 02:12 PM   #27
Ziphoblat
Hazardous
 
Ziphoblat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: England
Quote:
Originally Posted by John Swift
Once again a sweeping statement, I play in a Multi Genre band where my gear has to be able to accommodate many styles/sounds without depending on FOH assistance.


I was mainly referring to the "tones" you hear from bassists who basically turn the upper mids and treble knobs on their amps as far counter-clockwise as they can, and turn the bass all the way up. Disturbingly commonplace with some of the pub bands I've seen. Having weight to a tone is good, but it still needs the definition to support it in the context of a mix (as you can hear in the cited example Hotel California).

Quote:
Originally Posted by John Swift
Nobody can deny that well designed speakers and cabs are good but complex designs are usually both large, heavy and expensive, they came into popularity when speakers couldn't handle high wattages.


They don't have to be heavy if they've got neo drivers... and a 2x10 even if well-designed isn't going to be as large and cumbersome as a 4x10. The GK Neo line is a good example. Quite reasonably priced, and the 2x10 model versus the 4x10 model sheds a lot of size, 22lbs off the weight of the thing, and saves you 120. It doesn't take as many watts, but at 400 I think you'd be covered for the vast majority of gigging situations.
__________________
Save a Cow,
Eat a Vegan.
Ziphoblat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-14-2013, 07:11 PM   #28
FatalGear41
Battle Beagle!
 
FatalGear41's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Saturn's Rings
Quote:
Originally Posted by John Swift
In the past I've used a 120 watt Orange into a 200 watt Gauss speaker loaded in a 'W folded horn' cab which was big, heavy and expensive.


I miss Gauss speakers. They were cool, sounded great and they were practically blowout-proof. Heavy as hell, though.
__________________
"It's only Rock and Roll until someone loses an eye!"

Quote:
Originally Posted by gregs1020
FatalGear41 knows the ways of the obscure. I hear it's just not with Gibsons. Beware, Halloween approaches...


Quote:
Originally Posted by Spaz91
DAMNIT FATALGEAR YOU RUINED MUH FLOW!
FatalGear41 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-17-2013, 04:56 AM   #29
RyanStorm13
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Rule of thumb, your bass should be apparently heard with just drums and bass playing. If your not playing over the drummer, then no one is gonna hear you, especially over a guitarist.


I personally like the 4x10 or the 8x10. You can get a nice 4x10 stack for about $1000, or get something really awesome for about $2000 in the 8x10 range. Still there is stuff in the $500-$700 range that can be 1x15 or 4x10.

I have never had problems with the 1x15's I have had, even with obnoxiously loud drummers who go through drum heads like I do picks. Even with the 1x15 in a larger venue, mic'ing it to stage monitors or PA system is a quick fix. But you always start with a nice amp.


If your jamming and your not loud enough, and you have a nice amp, you don't just buy a new amp with more wattage. You work out the placement and Mic it to the singer if you need.
RyanStorm13 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-17-2013, 05:25 AM   #30
John Swift
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Sheffield England
Quote:
Originally Posted by FatalGear41
I miss Gauss speakers. They were cool, sounded great and they were practically blowout-proof. Heavy as hell, though.

The problem with 70s Gauss speakers was highlighted by Ken Dibbles priceless monthly speakers checks, like Altec they underperformed and distorted to much.
having been launched onto the scene with much publicity they, along with Altec seemed to quickly disappear.
__________________
G&L L2500
Squier Affinity Jazz Bass 5
Ashdown RPM pre-amp
Ashdown Little Giant 1000
300 watt 15" powered cab
450 watt 15" powered sub bass cab
2x10 + horn
1x15x10 + horn
John Swift is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-17-2013, 05:26 AM   #31
John Swift
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Sheffield England
Quote:
Originally Posted by RyanStorm13
Rule of thumb, your bass should be apparently heard with just drums and bass playing. If your not playing over the drummer, then no one is gonna hear you, especially over a guitarist.


I personally like the 4x10 or the 8x10. You can get a nice 4x10 stack for about $1000, or get something really awesome for about $2000 in the 8x10 range. Still there is stuff in the $500-$700 range that can be 1x15 or 4x10.

I have never had problems with the 1x15's I have had, even with obnoxiously loud drummers who go through drum heads like I do picks. Even with the 1x15 in a larger venue, mic'ing it to stage monitors or PA system is a quick fix. But you always start with a nice amp.


If your jamming and your not loud enough, and you have a nice amp, you don't just buy a new amp with more wattage. You work out the placement and Mic it to the singer if you need.


I think you'll find that di'ing is most used method for bass not mic'ing.
__________________
G&L L2500
Squier Affinity Jazz Bass 5
Ashdown RPM pre-amp
Ashdown Little Giant 1000
300 watt 15" powered cab
450 watt 15" powered sub bass cab
2x10 + horn
1x15x10 + horn
John Swift is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-17-2013, 05:35 AM   #32
John Swift
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Sheffield England
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ziphoblat
I was mainly referring to the "tones" you hear from bassists who basically turn the upper mids and treble knobs on their amps as far counter-clockwise as they can, and turn the bass all the way up. Disturbingly commonplace with some of the pub bands I've seen. Having weight to a tone is good, but it still needs the definition to support it in the context of a mix (as you can hear in the cited example Hotel California).


On Hotel California I use the mid sweep on my J-Retro kits that I've fitted to both my basses for the definition that the bassline requires, along with another Eagles song 'One Of These Nights', using this kit along with a .055 G string (not .045) I get the definition without losing bottom end tone and all through 15" Eminence Neo.
__________________
G&L L2500
Squier Affinity Jazz Bass 5
Ashdown RPM pre-amp
Ashdown Little Giant 1000
300 watt 15" powered cab
450 watt 15" powered sub bass cab
2x10 + horn
1x15x10 + horn
John Swift is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-17-2013, 04:55 PM   #33
RyanStorm13
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
What is DIing...is that like through a pre amp
RyanStorm13 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-26-2013, 03:45 PM   #34
ezracles
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
It really depends. The wattage rating on the amp doesn't always map predictably.
Basically, you'll be in one of two positions though:

1. you aren't going through the PA
2. you are

If you're not going through the PA, then neither is the drummer, so you only have to be as loud as the drummer.

If you are going through the PA, that's where the most power is, so let the sound guys sort it out.

At my last gig I was in a crowded and dead and very large bar. I had 2 amps with me. Both were solid state because I didn't feel like taking my 80 pound mesa boogie down 2 flights of steps.

I always gig with 2 amps. It produces some ambience, and the combination of sounds makes for a nice sound including stereo effects. I can aim them differently. Make sure you always have at least one of them pointed to you.

It turns out that my 15 watt fender frontman is louder than my 40 watt fender mustang. I had the stang on about 7 and the fm on about 3 or 4. The newer modeling amps (this is my theory), try to reproduce amps with cabinets, which means more bass, which requires much more wattage.

I've never had my boogie over 3, and only over 2 once.

I wasn't crazy about how the stang sounded at that volume. I'm considering upgrading.

In any situation though, you'll never need tons of wattage or cabinets unless you're playing clean. That's all BS. If you turn up a Marshall stack to 3, with the gains up, it's so loud you can't even see straight. Multiple cabs are for show and failover.

If you want wall rattling bass response, you need a cab, or you can put your combo into a large wooden crate and it recreates it somewhat. Also,in some situations, you'll find you just don't cut through and have to turn up.

You can translate everything I said into bass gear too. Same deal. Except maybe the stereo effects thing.

Last edited by ezracles : 02-26-2013 at 03:53 PM.
ezracles is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-26-2013, 04:54 PM   #35
John Swift
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Sheffield England
Quote:
Originally Posted by RyanStorm13
What is DIing...is that like through a pre amp


Direct injecting is the usual way for bass and keyboards.
Guitars are normaly mic'ed up as the sound of the speakers is what is required.
Basses don't often mic up as it is not very often sucessful. so di-ing from the pre-amp stage is used, most decent amps have a DI out, some also come with with pre or post EQ choice.
__________________
G&L L2500
Squier Affinity Jazz Bass 5
Ashdown RPM pre-amp
Ashdown Little Giant 1000
300 watt 15" powered cab
450 watt 15" powered sub bass cab
2x10 + horn
1x15x10 + horn

Last edited by John Swift : 02-27-2013 at 05:58 AM.
John Swift is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump



All times are GMT -4. The time now is 09:52 AM.

Forum Archives / About / Terms of Use / Advertise / Contact / Ultimate-Guitar.Com © 2014
Powered by: vBulletin Version 3.0.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.