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Old 10-25-2012, 01:09 PM   #1
calumxD
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writers block

okay for starters, im a practical guitarist i enjoy playing more than i do sitting down and learning endless scale shapes, so i dont know any scales but i was writing a song kinda (i play metal btw) got to the end of the bridge for the rythem, but i have no lead section at all, everything i've tried for this particular bit im doing sounds like ass, since i dont know scales im just going off what sounds good, my section is pretty much a triplet followed by a slide

l-----------------------------------------------l P.M
D# -------------------------------------------------------------
A# -------------------------------------------------------------
F# -------------------------------------------------------------
C# 5-----------------------------------------------------2/3/2
G# 5-----------------------------------------------------2/3/2
C# 5--5-5-5--5-5-5--5-5-5--5-5-5--5-5-5--5-5---2/3/2

any ideas for what to put over the top of that ? i have no drum beat or anything yet im getting the guitar down first, btw this is played at 176 bpm
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Old 10-25-2012, 01:18 PM   #2
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As somebody inexperienced in lead and improvisation, I think you can't go wrong with the pentatonic scale. I know eventually you want to use other scales, but pentatonics are good to make nice metal/rock (and blues, of course) solos from.
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Old 10-25-2012, 01:22 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by calumxD
im a practical guitarist


Quote:
Originally Posted by calumxD
i dont know any scales


there's a bit of an anti-scale crusade going on around MT, but i'm not really part of it, so i have this to say:

there's your problem, honestly. if you don't know any scales, i'm going to make the likely conclusion that you don't know much theory and probably don't have much writing experience. not to knock you, but how can you expect to be "practical" if you have neither the knowledge or experience to understand what you're doing? what you've given people to work with is really not much - sure, anyone can play the tab you've given, but what's the rhythm? how are we supposed to know how to play that? i can interpret that in several ways, and i'd have ideas for each one of them. not to mention i'm fairly confident that what you're playing isn't even a triplet -- you need to spend a LOT more time and effort into understanding what you're doing. get to know your craft. study theory, train your ear, and continue writing music to get more experience. you'll get the furthest if you do all three.

if you're not willing to do that, then just do the old guess-and-check method. doesn't matter how you get the music written, so long as it gets written. i just don't like guess-and-check because it takes forever. there's no problem with using it...

...until you come and ask other people to write your music for you.

if what you're doing sounds like ass, do something different! it's not a very difficult concept - figure it out for yourself if you're not interested in amassing the knowledge and skill to be good at the musical craft. remember - something only has value and use to you if you exchange time or money for it. and since time is more valuable, i prefer investing time over money. you get more that way. the equivalent of what you're doing is kind of like trying to write an essay in a language you spent 3 months learning. no matter how you slice it, it all comes down to you requiring more experience in your craft. i'm simply giving you the fastest way to do it.

choice is yours.
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Old 10-25-2012, 01:36 PM   #4
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yeah the message didnt come out looking like i wanted it too, but anyway, im not creating a solo, ive only played for 2 years, i just want to create something, scales and shit bore me, I'd have no fun doing it and would forget it easily, i dont know what i really expected from this, just some guidance without the usual "learn scales" reply....
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Old 10-25-2012, 02:01 PM   #5
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So you want to make something but don't want to go through the process of learning how to make it? I think l see the problem
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Old 10-25-2012, 02:39 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by z4twenny
So you want to make something but don't want to go through the process of learning how to make it? I think l see the problem


i mean, really, it all comes down to this. if you don't want to put in the work to learn and fortify your skill, then you're simply not going to reap the rewards.

you have two options left: guess-and-check or ask someone else to write your music for you. and even though you've done the latter in this thread, something tells me you aren't very happy about it.
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Old 10-25-2012, 03:08 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AeolianWolf
there's a bit of an anti-scale crusade going on around MT, but i'm not really part of it, so i have this to say:

there's your problem, honestly. if you don't know any scales, i'm going to make the likely conclusion that you don't know much theory and probably don't have much writing experience. not to knock you, but how can you expect to be "practical" if you have neither the knowledge or experience to understand what you're doing? what you've given people to work with is really not much - sure, anyone can play the tab you've given, but what's the rhythm? how are we supposed to know how to play that? i can interpret that in several ways, and i'd have ideas for each one of them. not to mention i'm fairly confident that what you're playing isn't even a triplet -- you need to spend a LOT more time and effort into understanding what you're doing. get to know your craft. study theory, train your ear, and continue writing music to get more experience. you'll get the furthest if you do all three.

if you're not willing to do that, then just do the old guess-and-check method. doesn't matter how you get the music written, so long as it gets written. i just don't like guess-and-check because it takes forever. there's no problem with using it...

...until you come and ask other people to write your music for you.

if what you're doing sounds like ass, do something different! it's not a very difficult concept - figure it out for yourself if you're not interested in amassing the knowledge and skill to be good at the musical craft. remember - something only has value and use to you if you exchange time or money for it. and since time is more valuable, i prefer investing time over money. you get more that way. the equivalent of what you're doing is kind of like trying to write an essay in a language you spent 3 months learning. no matter how you slice it, it all comes down to you requiring more experience in your craft. i'm simply giving you the fastest way to do it.

choice is yours.



This! +1
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Old 10-25-2012, 04:37 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by calumxD
everything i've tried for this particular bit im doing sounds like ass, since i dont know scales im just going off what sounds good


You know, there's this misconception out there about what it means to play by ear.

There are all sorts of hacks out there who say they play by ear, but what that means is that they just sort of thrash around unless something bothers them.

But when a good musician talks about playing by ear, that's not what they're talking about. They're talking about hearing specific sounds in their head and creating them on their instrument.

The irony, of course, about people who just play what "sounds good" as opposed to learning theory is that learning theory is easy - seriously, you can learn all the theory you'll ever need to know for popular music in a month. What's actually hard is training your ear to HEAR all that theory, training your mind to think in those concept musically, rather than intellectually. That takes years of consistent work.

So actually learning how to play by ear, if you want to be any good, is actually MUCH harder than learning theory.

And that gets to the problem: you're not really composing anything by ear here. What you're doing is thrashing around on your guitar until something sounds inoffensive, and then you thrash around some more until you find another piece that fits with it. And you know what? That doesn't work. You have no control over the process.

The only way to compose good music is to listen for what you want to hear. Play this riff you like, and listen to the silence that follows. What do you WANT to hear next? Only once you've heard it, try to find it on you instrument. This will take a long time if your ear isn't well-trained yet - and in fact it may be impossible (because when your ear is not well-trained, the sounds you hear in your head are vague).

And look, a certain amount of getting good at music is simple repetition. You have to drill some core skills. And if you don't do that, you'll probably never get good. A certain amount of practice is going to always be "work" and if you're not okay with that then you should be okay with never really being any good.
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Old 10-26-2012, 02:31 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HotspurJr
....They're talking about hearing specific sounds in their head and creating them on their instrument....

TS...close your eyes...play the riff in your mind. What comes next? Then find the notes on the fretboard..they're all there....
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Old 10-26-2012, 10:42 AM   #10
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+1 Everything Hotspurjr said
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Old 10-26-2012, 12:11 PM   #11
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okay, i can accept i obviously need to learn a lot more theory, but i'm a noob at theory, so where should i start ? any good places i can go ?
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Old 10-26-2012, 12:16 PM   #12
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The major scale, start there since virtually all Western music is derived from it in some way.
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Old 10-26-2012, 12:22 PM   #13
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okay, i can accept i obviously need to learn a lot more theory, but i'm a noob at theory, so where should i start ? any good places i can go ?

Search for 'The Crusade (part 1)' in ultimate guitar's lessons. Also download the tool from the website 'miles.be' to concurrently train your ear.
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Old 10-26-2012, 07:22 PM   #14
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Okay i kinda get scales i know what they are and stuff, its just learning keys im baffled with, am i correct in saying that only a c major scale and other scales in c will fight in the key of c?
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Old 10-26-2012, 07:38 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by calumxD
Okay i kinda get scales i know what they are and stuff, its just learning keys im baffled with, am i correct in saying that only a c major scale and other scales in c will fight in the key of c?


"kinda getting scales" is not good enough. i don't know what you mean by scales "fighting" in the key of C, and forget everything you know about "other scales in C". you are nowhere near that level.

if you want to get this stuff right, start at the bottom and work your way up. if you assume you know things and skip topics you'll ultimately end up with holes throughout your comprehension of music.
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Old 10-26-2012, 07:42 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by calumxD
okay for starters, im a practical guitarist i enjoy playing more than i do sitting down and learning endless scale shapes,

Cool. I get that. - I mean I would never suggest endless scale shapes to anyone. The major scale is one big shape but that can be tricky to learn as one big lump so it is often broken down into five shapes that overlap and span the entire fretboard. So five shapes is all you need for the major scale. - But it's hyperbole right you didn't actually mean endless scales you just mean you get bored by it and have much more fun and interest in playing songs. Cool.

So how many songs do you know all the way through? I'm not talking about campfire songs where you strum a simple chord progression but the kind of riff driven songs that you seem to be trying to write. How many do you know all the way through? You want to write a second guitar part over that first one? How many songs that have more than one guitar have you learnt all the guitar parts for all the way through?

How many complete lead metal guitar solos can you play well? How many at or over 176bpm?

How many of those songs and/or solos did you figure out by ear?

If your answer to any of the above questions can be counted on one hand then you will benefit greatly from learning more songs. If the answer to any of the above questions is zero then you should consider doing something about that. Work toward getting the answer to all those questions into double digits (and don't stop there keep expanding your repertoire) and your ability to solve the problems you are currently having will diminish greatly.
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