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Old 03-14-2013, 12:38 PM   #81
Vlasco
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I like Steve Howe a lot and he's a sloppy bastard in quite a few of his solos.

(if you like the player even though they're sloppy then don't worry about the slop)
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Old 03-14-2013, 01:12 PM   #82
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Originally Posted by rutle_me_this
I'm still a beginner. I know open chords, some barre chords, learning scales.

So I can't really participate in this discussion.

But I'm just interested in your quote. From what I've read, PAGE and HENDRIX both were considered great guitarists. I have their music on CD. And I've watched tons of video of their playing on YouTube. So what do you mean they were sloppy at times? How do you define sloppy? Where were they ever sloppy?

(When I've watched them playing, again on YouTube videos, I'm always in awe. Amazed. My mouth agape.)


I like their playing too but they are not that accurate when they play fast. They are good. But by sloppy I mean not accurate and also listen to Heartbreaker solo. When Jimmy plays the solo, you can hear that his hands are out of synch (I'm not sure if he does that on purpose though) so some notes get muted and it doesn't sound clean. Yeah, playing sloppy means not playing cleanly and accurately (and by clean I don't mean through clean channel, I mean the sound is clear). Most are sloppy only at high speeds.

Listen to Led Zeppelin 1979 Knebworth concert. That's definitely not Page's best moment (though back then he had problems with heroin) even though I like the concert.

And having a sloppy technique doesn't mean that you always play sloppily. They only played sloppily when they played fast. Also Jimi Hendrix is always out of tune. Though it's kind of part of his sound. And it's kind of understandable because of his heavy whammy bar use. It doesn't sound like Jimi Hendrix if it's not a bit out of tune.

Don't get me wrong, I think they are great guitarists. But lacking technique is always lacking technique. But IMO they are good enough guitarists to play the music they want to play.
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Old 03-14-2013, 01:35 PM   #83
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MaggaraMarine
I like their playing too but they are not that accurate when they play fast. They are good. But by sloppy I mean not accurate and also listen to Heartbreaker solo. When Jimmy plays the solo, you can hear that his hands are out of synch (I'm not sure if he does that on purpose though) so some notes get muted and it doesn't sound clean. Yeah, playing sloppy means not playing cleanly and accurately (and by clean I don't mean through clean channel, I mean the sound is clear). Most are sloppy only at high speeds.

Listen to Led Zeppelin 1979 Knebworth concert. That's definitely not Page's best moment (though back then he had problems with heroin) even though I like the concert.

And having a sloppy technique doesn't mean that you always play sloppily. They only played sloppily when they played fast. Also Jimi Hendrix is always out of tune. Though it's kind of part of his sound. And it's kind of understandable because of his heavy whammy bar use. It doesn't sound like Jimi Hendrix if it's not a bit out of tune.

Don't get me wrong, I think they are great guitarists. But lacking technique is always lacking technique. But IMO they are good enough guitarists to play the music they want to play.


Adding to this though, all that matters is the end result obviously. I love the heartbreaker solo and I think the imperfections add a lot to it, and the same goes for a lot of Page's stuff. So it all comes down to preference and style.
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Old 03-14-2013, 03:18 PM   #84
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Again, as a beginner, I can only say what I enjoy hearing. As to who is great and who is good, I only know what I read in articles or hear in interviews. So putting aside Hendrix and Page for a moment, here are other guitarists whose music I love: Pete Townshend, Keith Richards, Eric Clapton, and George Harrison.

I've always loved their music. Only after getting into their music, and wanting to know more about them as people, did I read up on them and most of what I've read seemed positive about their abilities, skills, etc.

Now none of the names I've listed above play lightning fast. I don't know why that became a criterion at some point (speed, that is).

Based on the topic of this thread -- past versus present -- so how does their playing hold up these days, I mean, in the modern era?

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Old 03-14-2013, 03:19 PM   #85
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who cares
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Old 03-14-2013, 05:11 PM   #86
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rutle_me_this
Again, as a beginner, I can only say what I enjoy hearing. As to who is great and who is good, I only know what I read in articles or hear in interviews. So putting aside Hendrix and Page for a moment, here are other guitarists whose music I love: Pete Townshend, Keith Richards, Eric Clapton, and George Harrison.

I've always loved their music. Only after getting into their music, and wanting to know more about them as people, did I read up on them and most of what I've read seemed positive about their abilities, skills, etc.

Now none of the names I've listed above play lightning fast. I don't know why that became a criterion at some point (speed, that is).

Based on the topic of this thread -- past versus present -- so how does their playing hold up these days, I mean, in the modern era?

Both Page and Hedrix were innovative guitarists but technically today's guitarists are much better. Back in the 60s and 70s their skills were impressive because nobody had heard of that kind of playing before. But good technical skills don't necessarily mean good music. I enjoy Page's and Hedrix's playing a lot more than Malmsteen's shredding. And as Ahteh said, sloppy playing doesn't necessarily mean that it sounds bad. Imperfections can add more "emotion" to the solo. If you don't play it accurately like a machine, it might sound better (and if your technique is good enough, you can decide to play it a bit inaccurately on purpose to get more "loose" feeling). But it's about opinions. Some people like lightning fast shredding. I'm really not a fan of it, I prefer more melodic solos. Playing fast (like any other technique) sounds good if you use it moderately and can use it in the right place.

But I think Page and Hendrix would still be good guitarists. Technically not the best but good. But comparing guitarists is more about opinions than facts. Technical skills don't really mean nothing if you are never going to use them in your playing.

And playing fast is so 80s. Melody is The Stuff.
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Old 03-16-2013, 08:53 AM   #87
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Well to sum it up, *many* decades ago the only "shredders" were jazz guitarists. Nowadays, it's nearly everyone (albeit obviously with less musical theory and originality).

So yeah. On average there are more technical guitarists now than they were in the past.
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Old 03-17-2013, 01:28 PM   #88
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Some great playing from 1973.

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Old 03-17-2013, 01:29 PM   #89
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Some nice playing from 2007.

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Old 06-01-2014, 06:23 PM   #90
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of course it depends on what criteria you're using technical abilities style song writing by to this day still John McLaughlin is still considered God to guitar players he is who all aspire to and look up to

go to any of his concerts and see all the greats there they are watching him pat Metheny Al Di Meola very close second
Jan Ackerman another 70 s guitar player Ritchie Blackmore Michael Schenker if you look at the style their uniqueness and ability, blow away any of the new ones Gary Moore who I played for another great one the problem with the newer guitar players.
A lot of the new ones will have technique and forget about style or they'll just play fast but not really have anything behind it so and the other thing is music progress up until about the 80's and since then 90's on its just been weak ass copies of what happened in the 60's 70's
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Old 06-01-2014, 07:00 PM   #91
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Um...drumhobo. This thread's last post was in March of last year...
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Old 06-01-2014, 10:28 PM   #92
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^^^ Incorrect! The last post on this thread is this one, right now.

Closed. Opinion thread.
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