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Old 11-21-2012, 10:07 AM   #1
iSouLeZz
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Following the Chords

How do you go about following the chords.. Ok, say the song starts..

E - F - G.. phrygian.. Three chords, no extensions, just the basic forms.

How do you go about this..? Find any E arp and play it, then from wherever you are play another arp for the next chord..? Add in chromatics and stuff..

But I swear it's almost like pentatonics.. I use an arpeggio once, internalize.. and all of a sudden it just comes out in whatever I play.. It's annoying because I want my music to grow and sound different..

I had the problem of looking at the fretboard in a very linear way at first.. then I moved on to pentatonics and box positions.. now I'm at chord-tone soloing and all of the puzzle pieces are making sense.. It's just now it's like.. Well how many different ways can you follow one chord..?

Do I have follow an E as an E..? Are there substitutions I can play..?

Basically. I just opened the doors to chord-tone soloing not long ago. I understand the principle, but now I want to take this knowledge and apply it further. I want to know all the different things I can do, little and small to add to the artistic palette.

Is playing in Modes the same as Chord-Tone soloing..? I never had a teacher.. I'm completely self-taught.. I'm not a dummy and I can understand theory.. I just never asked anyone to explain it to me.. so.. any help would be greatly appreciated..

Here's an example of how I followed the chords.. Can someone people help me out in taking my approach a different route..?

Progression Am - Dm - F - E



Thanks for all the experienced guys out there! Hopefully my question answers someone elses too.. UG is the best.. Love this place!
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Old 11-21-2012, 11:09 AM   #2
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Old 11-21-2012, 12:25 PM   #3
wolflen
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yeah..ok...i know where you are...and there is a way out of the confusion..but it will take some work on your part...

study diatonic harmony...this will bring order to why chords work together

get a teacher..a good one..it will accelerate your learning curve and have your questions explained

forget modes..they will only confuse you ALOT the term phrigian in your post is an example...after you have a very firm grasp of diatonic harmony and theory..you can see what modes are any hopefully you will see why they are confusing..

as for where you are now..its like walking in the dark and feeling your way .. well this chord sounds good with this chord but doesn't sound good with this chord?? why??

hope this helps

wolf
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Old 11-21-2012, 01:09 PM   #4
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While I agree with the "forget modes" advice Wolflen gives you, I would suggest a slightly different approach.

You've got some really solid technical skills, and it sounds like the chord-tone idea is pretty well embedded in your playing, which is good. I hear what you mean when you say that you get stuck in arpeggios, but really, as problems go, this isn't that big a deal.

However, it sounds to me like you're trying to approach this as an academic problem. "What concept do I have to add to my playing to have more variety?"

I think it's time for you to learn to stop thinking about academic concepts at all. Your goal needs to be to get your conscious mind out of the way of your playing entirely. Think about how you talk: you know what you want to say in terms of content, and the words just come out, as if on their own accord. You want it to be the same with your music.

There are two key ideas to help you do this. The first is to always think in terms of melody. So many guitar players learn how to improvise before they learn how to play a melody, but this is backwards. Your improvisation needs to flow from the melody, and if there isn't a melody, you need to come up with one.

Developing your ear will also help you get out of thinking academically. Training your ear is the same as training your brain to think in pitches - an untrained ear doesn't hear pitches accurately or specifically. So work on your ear. Download the functional ear trainer from miles.be (much better than interval training) and practice transcribing melodies and solos. (Start simple if this is hard for you.)

What this helps you do is get away from thinking about what you want to play in terms of concepts. WHen you can think with pitch-accuracy, you can listen to the chord changes and just hear the music in your head - and all you have to do is play it. Because you're well grounded in arpeggios, the ideas you come up with will tend to use them, but you won't be bound to them.
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Old 11-21-2012, 01:53 PM   #5
macashmack
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I agree with Hotspur, hit it spot on.
I feel like you have already learned all the notes on the fretboard, but it you haven't do that.
Learn all 24 major and minor scales as thoroughly as you learned your alphabet.
use the functional ear trainer as Hotspur said and, the whole time your doing all of these things, weave them together in your practicing.
Also, transcribe any song that you like.
It'll take a while, but eventually you should have the ability to make any sound you want. That is virtuosity.
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Old 11-21-2012, 03:55 PM   #6
iSouLeZz
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HotspurJr
While I agree with the "forget modes" advice Wolflen gives you, I would suggest a slightly different approach.

You've got some really solid technical skills, and it sounds like the chord-tone idea is pretty well embedded in your playing, which is good. I hear what you mean when you say that you get stuck in arpeggios, but really, as problems go, this isn't that big a deal.

However, it sounds to me like you're trying to approach this as an academic problem. "What concept do I have to add to my playing to have more variety?"

I think it's time for you to learn to stop thinking about academic concepts at all. Your goal needs to be to get your conscious mind out of the way of your playing entirely. Think about how you talk: you know what you want to say in terms of content, and the words just come out, as if on their own accord. You want it to be the same with your music.

There are two key ideas to help you do this. The first is to always think in terms of melody. So many guitar players learn how to improvise before they learn how to play a melody, but this is backwards. Your improvisation needs to flow from the melody, and if there isn't a melody, you need to come up with one.

Developing your ear will also help you get out of thinking academically. Training your ear is the same as training your brain to think in pitches - an untrained ear doesn't hear pitches accurately or specifically. So work on your ear. Download the functional ear trainer from miles.be (much better than interval training) and practice transcribing melodies and solos. (Start simple if this is hard for you.)

What this helps you do is get away from thinking about what you want to play in terms of concepts. WHen you can think with pitch-accuracy, you can listen to the chord changes and just hear the music in your head - and all you have to do is play it. Because you're well grounded in arpeggios, the ideas you come up with will tend to use them, but you won't be bound to them.


Thank you so much for the rock solid advice. I feel like that was really the problem all along.. I was approaching too much academically whereas I should focus more on melody..

I think I learned that.. Kind of like how I was stuck playing in box position pentatonics and broke away.. Now I have to take the arpeggios and instead of just playing arps that sound nice.. Use the arps as a tool to build melody.. It sounds so simple really but I know I have a long way to go.. Thank you so much for your input that was really well said. Bravo!


EDIT:

I re-read that.. You know what's scary..? I hear the notes I want in my head, I can hear them following the chords in my head too.. But when I play I was using arps and only getting close to the sound.. My friend, I need to begin improve my ear-training.. That's my next goal.. Thank you again for helping me identify a major weak spot! Cheers and enjoy the holidays!

I'll be back soon with some ear-training practice under my belt. See ya guys around!


Edit:

I tried the ear trainer.. Wow my ear isn't as sharp as I thought.. Looking forward to making serious progress

Last edited by iSouLeZz : 11-21-2012 at 04:11 PM.
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Old 11-21-2012, 04:13 PM   #7
Brianxautumn
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Heres some ideas on how to solo in a minor key
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Old 11-21-2012, 05:15 PM   #8
iSouLeZz
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brianxautumn

Heres some ideas on how to solo in a minor key



Thanks man! Not exactly what I was looking for but it was cool to watch.
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Old 11-21-2012, 08:11 PM   #9
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Well here I should have typed this out: You should start buy picking a key or scaled to get your harmony from.

Then after that, you only need to switch scales if you are playing a chord outside the key like the one above.

If you want to make sure you hit a lot of the chord tones, then you gotta learn where the arpeggios are embedded into the scales. That way you know where the main notes are, and where the rest of the scale tones are available too!
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Old 11-21-2012, 08:30 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iSouLeZz
How do you go about following the chords.. Ok, say the song starts...

You don't have to play on every chord, dude. Leave some space to breathe. Target guide tones.

The vid was constant notes from start to finish. I felt exhausted afterwards lol.
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Old 11-28-2012, 06:52 PM   #11
iSouLeZz
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Instead of making a new thread.. I decided to bump this one..

I just tried this as a new idea taking the suggestion of everyone.. Playing lesson, more rhythmically and melodically.. I don't know how well I did.. So hopefully some new input if I followed the chords any better would be great..

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Old 11-28-2012, 07:28 PM   #12
Hail
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somewhere between your amp tone, the bad recording, your yucky fingertone, and possibly a poor intonation on your instrument, it just sounds like a mess on both vids. it's not all your fault, but even if you play perfectly, no audience would want to listen to (or pay to listen to) that quality of sound - it's all part of your playing even if it's purely aesthetic.

but there are solid melodies in there. nothing stunningly original, but it's better than you repeat them and try to get them stuck in the song rather than running up and down scales until you think of the next little lick.
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Old 11-28-2012, 09:16 PM   #13
iSouLeZz
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hail
somewhere between your amp tone, the bad recording, your yucky fingertone, and possibly a poor intonation on your instrument, it just sounds like a mess on both vids. it's not all your fault, but even if you play perfectly, no audience would want to listen to (or pay to listen to) that quality of sound - it's all part of your playing even if it's purely aesthetic.

but there are solid melodies in there. nothing stunningly original, but it's better than you repeat them and try to get them stuck in the song rather than running up and down scales until you think of the next little lick.


Yeah man.. that was really bugging me.. You'd be surprised but that was recorded off my cell phone..

I'm new the using my FX unit and I don't have a laptop readily available to make use of its direct line recording.. I better start using it because you're absolutely right..

One question on all this.. Yucky fingertone.. Ok can you help me out with that.. First I need to be able to identify yucky fingertone.. then spot it in my own playing.. then correct it.. can you point examples out.. sorry for having to make you listen to the poor audio again.. your help was greatly appreciated!


Edit:

That was actually really rude of me.. I should re-record it direct line in, I'm sure everyone could help me better then. Everyone has been so kind so far it's kind of dick on my part to just keep asking for help. Gotta do my part too.

Last edited by iSouLeZz : 11-29-2012 at 12:39 AM.
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Old 11-29-2012, 10:00 AM   #14
Hail
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around :20 seconds in the 2nd video, the vibrato just sounds almost random, and there are a lot of moments where you can hear the gain in a way that takes away from what you're actually playing (again, near the beginning of the 2nd vid there's a few good examples)

but your EQing is part of it, and it's hard to tell what's bad fingertone and what's a bad set-up/a string just being out of tune. turn the gain down, up your mids a bit, and mute with your picking hand at all times to avoid that ringing out, especially with a reasonable amount of gain
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