oddy nocki

I'm searching for theory relating to non-western styles of music. And in particular Spainish guitar theory. The more detailed, the better.

Thanks in advance.

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gpb0216

Perhaps you have confused "non-western" with "non-American". If you are assuming the Arabic influence on Spanish music must have given rise to a separate theory of music, you are mistaken. Spanish composers used a counterpart of Gregorian chant, the so-called Visigothic chant, until Gregorian chant replaced it in the latter part of the 11th century. At this point the course of Spanish music merges with that of "Western" music, as the same church, that at Rome, influenced and probably controlled the music of not only Spain but all of Europe. Spain has long used the "West's" familiar 12-tone-to-the-octave arrangement of musical tones. As such, the music of Spain conforms to the "West's" theory of music.

You're possibly referring to the use of scales and modes particular to Spanish music. I don't play much Spanish music so I'm afraid I can't be of much use to you on this point. I simply wanted to clear up your "non-Western Spanish music theory" confusion.

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ShortlineHero

^^^This is exactly what I was thinking.


I have played a little bit of spanish/flamenco, and I have found that its mostly in the Phrydgian mode. 1 b2 b3 4 5 b6 b7 8.


Also, I have found something like a Bm to a F# using F# Phrydgian. Use that mode, which is minor, over a major chord, and it will sound very spanish.

mangablade

^Phrygian. no D.

but, i agree, its the scale you want if you're gonna play some spanish guitar.

oddy nocki

No, I just poorly worded the question.

It was basically two questions. 1) I am looking for musical theory that is non-traditional theory. More specifically the use of harmonic and of rythmic structure relating to music of other parts of the world such as Eastern Europe, Africa and India.

2) Flamenco style is a key interest of mine in terms of rythmic and use of space and harmony. With this being said, I would like to learn more about the inner working of this music hence the question.

I don't want just scales, I want to know how and why this sound is different to "Western music" and why if the same notes are being used why they have a different sound?

If you have any more questions or need clarification on anything then just ask.
Thanks in advance.

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Freepower

^ well, if you dont know why the same notes can have different sounds, then i suggest backing off a little from the harmonic structure of entire pieces.

I assume you know the fact that relative major and minor scales have the same notes yet different sounds? Well, that applies to every starting point in the Major scale, not just the 1st and 6th. We call these modes.

I'd love to help a little on the indian and chinese music, but i dont consider myself enough of an authority to really help. Especially if you dont know how different intervallic structures affect the "sound" of the music. What exactly do you know?

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Night_Lights

i think its middle eastern music that has semitones in between semitones.

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Freepower

Semi semi tones are quarter tones, also called microtones. One must remember, they also use a system of just temperment in a lot of foreign styles.

As far as i know, the system of the subdivision of the octave changes quite a bit, 22 subdivisions (indian music), 12 western classical, and i used to know some really low ones...there have been pieces written with one note.

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UnderTheGroove

I'm definately no expert on music of the world, but I can offer a couple of broad ideas to get you started:

A lot of music in the mid-east and asia uses quarter tones in addition to the half tones and whole tones used in western music. As mentioned earlier, tunings are often different as well.

Different scales that are not based on the major scale are often used in other cultures; i.e. Arabian, Gypsy Minor, Hindustan, etc.

Time signatures are usually not radically different. 12/8 time is common in western africa, and this has been passed down in blues music.

Phrygian is a good scale to get you started with flamenco, as is Spanish Gypsy. A lot of the flamenco sound has to do with the rhythm and strumming technique.

I would suggest finding someone who specializes in the type of music you are interested in and try to take some lessons. Check and see if there is someone in your area who plays/teaches flamenco.

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psychodelia

Take the harmonic minor scale (1 2 b3 4 5 b6 maj7). It's fifth mode is something I've heard called the Spanish Phyrigian, if you look at it, it goes 1, b2, 3, 4, b6, b7. It resembles the Phrygian scale, except it has a major third. There is also something I learned called the Spanish Cadence or something (learned it on this site in fact) that goes something like Am, G, F, E. The chords can be placed in any key as long as they are relatively similar (so you could have Bm, A, G, F#.) That is really the extent of my knowledge about Spanish music, I recommend finding a flamenco teacher like UndertheGroove said.

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