TheSeventhOne

I'm looking to start playing a lot more post-rock (influenced by Sigur Ros, God Is An Astronaut, Explosions in the Sky etc). What kind of amps and FX pedals would you guys reccomend?

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Meatball200

Threads of possible interest:

Bands & Artists:

Post-rock:
http://www.ultimate-guitar.com/foru...ad.php?t=404420

Post/Experimental Metal:
http://www.ultimate-guitar.com/foru...ad.php?t=946511

Guitar Gear & Accessories:

The Pedalboard Thread
http://www.ultimate-guitar.com/foru...ad.php?t=384847

Live Videos

65daysofstatic -Radio Protector (from DVD)


This Will Destroy You - Threads


Mogwai - Rats of the Capital


Cult of Luna - Echoes


Explosions in the Sky - The Birth and Death of Day


Sigur Ros - Starlafur (Electric Proms)


Mono - Lost Snow

stradivari310

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SlappyMcLardfat

explosions uses fender reverbs; mogwai uses jcm 900. the amps are pretty much up to you. you definitely want a delay pedal (check out the dd-20 it has tons of different delays) and i find tha a good octave pedal can get some cool sounds an harmonies. also, a fuzz pedal is great for post-rock.

mfox4000

i'm in a bit of a post rock band myself, i use couple of distortion pedals, delay, chorus, reverb, and lots lots more reverb and delay.

for amps anything that sounds good clean is about all i can say, i've got a laney-200 which is awesome. and i use a fender strat because i need a large range of tones.

hope that helps at all

stradivari310

I should also add that in this situation digital delays like the line 6 and the boss are probably better because they have lots of features. I forgot to mention that something like an EHX Micro Synth or POG would be very useful.

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TheSeventhOne

Same.

Also looking at getting;

Boss RV-5
Boss FV500
Poss PH-3
Boss DS-1

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stradivari310

I'd stay away from the Boss Reverb and Phaser. The Boss Reverb is fairly lifeless and only has a couple useful settings. The Phaser is a tone sucker when it's on... the other guitarist in my last band had a one and it was awful.

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TheSeventhOne

Are there any alternatives you could reccomend?

I should also point out I'm a guitar noob and this will actually be my first time buying a proper guitar and amp worth more than about £10.

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Meatball200

Im staying away from the idea of a reverb pedal just because i'd be buying an amp with a decent built-in reverb anyway

stradivari310

I'd get an EHX small stone, it's my favorite phaser.

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Miss G

I'd look into a delay pedal like the Line 6 DL4 or the Boss DD-20 Giga Delay and then something like a Boss DD-3 on the side. A wah pedal, a tremolo, a reverb (EHX Holy Grails are nice), an ebow would all be useful. Maybe a Rat or a Big Muff.

cmakkidguitar

Amps for post rock vary a lot between bands. They all have a good base clean sound, but that clean can vary from warm and British over to brighter sounds like the twin Reverbs that EITS and Mogwai (i think? feel free to correct me but i believe they use JCM900s and Twins) use. Personally i like the Twins bright sound, distinctive sound, so i'm looking at Fenders and similar amps myself

As for pedals, other people seem to have it covered. a good digital delay, perhaps a fuzz and/or strong distortion. If the amp you go for doesn't already have a good reverb, thats a definite must have too

good luck

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TheSeventhOne

Thanks for the advice guys.

For the guitar I'm thinking a Les Paul Studio.

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stradivari310

^ You can do basically whatever you want for your guitar, although IMO you should just get a standard Les Paul. Epiphone or Gibson?

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Tombe

If you can find a Boss RV-3 that's what most bands seem to use, much better than then RV-5.

For post-rock I use a Boss Turbo Distortion (soon to be replaced by a Big Muff) Digitech Bad Monkey overdrive, Boss DD-3 and Line6 DL-4 delays and a EHX Holy Grail reverb. Sometimes I throw a bit of Small Stone into the mix to get the Mogwai-y phaser sound.

I find guitar and amp aren't that important, as long as you can get a good clean tone out of them. Fender guitars and amps seem to be the popular choice though, although I've noticed a lot of bands using ES335-type guitars of late and Jonsi from Sigur Ros uses a none-more-rock Gibson Les Paul into a Marshall stack setup.

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TheSeventhOne

Gibson.

I've not yet been able to find a standard (I'm a lefty )

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colin617

This is what me and the other guitarist in my post-rock project are using:
Fender '52 RI Tele
Gibson Memphis '60s ES-335

Orange Rockerverb 50
Matchless 412 (Celestion V30s and G12H)
Fender Twin Reverb RI (NOS Svetlanas; Weber 12A150s)
Vox AC30CC2 (Alnico Blues)
Mesa Boogie Mark III (purple stripe)
Mesa Rectifier 212
Orange PP212

Korg Pitchblack
Ernie Ball Volume Pedal
Crowther Prunes and Custard
OLC Chunky Cheese
RetroSonic Phaser
MXR Carbon Copy
Freakshow FX Digilog
EHX POG

Peavey 6505 head (Voodoo platinum mod)
Mesa Recto Standard 412 (V30s)
Hiwatt Custom 100
Hiwatt cab (Fanes)
Carvin Legacy combo

Gibson LP Standard Double cut
Rickenbacker 650 Dakota

Boss TU-2
Analogman King of Tone
Skreddy Lunar Module
Empress Tremolo
Boss VB-2 Vibrato
Subdecay Prometheus
Digitech Whammy 4
Dr. Scientist Reverberator
EHX Deluxe Memory Man
EHX Micro Synth

Sorry, this was relatively pointless. I just wanted to post it.

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cmakkidguitar

^I'm so insanely jealous of those rigs. Specifically your amps

Kudos mang

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Meatball200

Im a lefty too, that's no excuse!
GAK stock them and so do Reverb (formerly sound control).

At the moment im using my ec-1000 on the neck pickup with the volume rolled back. Not exactly too concerned with the tone as im playing through a line6 toneport at the moment. Dont have an amp for the time being.



What's the name of your band?

TheSeventhOne

Will probably go for a Gibson Les Paul into a Marshall stack setup too tbh.

So many pedals I now need.

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xwearesinking

consider this post as a mini guide to post rock/ambient gear. this will be an "affordable" guide, i'm not going to include very high end/boutique stuff.

i'll start with DELAY.

ANY ambient rig should have at least 2 delays (one analog, one digital) AND a looper capable of at least 4 seconds of recording time. you want your digital delay to have 1.5s or more delay time, and you want your analog to be able to self oscillate. for your looper, the longer recording time the better. a couple short loopers/samplers can be used to great affect as well, i know the guitarist from Stars of the Lid uses two DODFX94's to great effect.

RECOMMENDATIONS:

Digital delay/stompbox: Ibanez DE-7, Boss DD-3, Digitech Digidelay, Line 6 Echo Park

Analog delay/stompbox: Ibanez AD-9, DOD FX90, MXR Carbon Copy, Boss DM-2

Stompbox Loopers: DOD FX94, Boss RC-2, Boss DD-6 (hold function)

Big Loopers: Akai Headrush E2, Line6 DL4, RC-20

There are also "non-static loopers" which are hard to come by, but VERY good for droning and ambient stuff. They work by setting the delay time, recording something until it's layered and then just holds/repeats it. there are a few old digitech units like this that'd i'd really like to be able to get my hands on, especially the Digitech PDS 20/20. Lo-Fi looping at it's best. This can be modded to get 20seconds of delay time. of course at that long, the original signal is quite degraded, but in a very nice way.

And then there are the Digitech RDS units, which are the rack versions of the PDS units. 20 seconds of delay (when tweaked) with almost no signal loss.

REVERB

you'll want at least one, preferably two reverbs on your board both capable of very long decay times. honestly, there isn't much to choose from as far as stompboxes go and i am pretty displeased with pretty much everything on the market. I use a Line 6 Verbzilla and a Boss RV-3 which are both recommended, but ultimately a little cold and sterile. you'll find this with any reverb stombox though. unfortunately, amp/spring reverb can't get nearly as long as you need it to for this sort of music. I'd highly recommend looking into some rack stuff. contrary to popular belief, it is actually cheaper than most stompboxes new if you know what you're looking for.

RECOMENDATIONS:

Stombox: Line 6 Verbzilla, Boss RV-2, RV-3, RV-5 (only for "Mod" setting), Yamaha Magicstomp, Zoom 507!

NOT the Holy Grail unless you intend on using it for only smaller scale reverbs. it really muddies up on the higher mix settings.

Rack : Korg DVR1000, Yamaha SPX900, Alesis Quadraverb(+, GT), Midiverb, Microverb, Nanoverb, Boss SE-50, SE-70, RRV-10

(the Alesis units are inherently noisey, you'll want to place them in an isolated loop).

DISTORTION/FUZZ/OD

OVERDRIVE: most stock od's are pretty shrill, and mid humpish. lots of mids + lots of reverb = biiig mess. overdrive pedals aren't really too useful in this sort of application anyway. there are really only two worth mentioning. Ibanez TS-5 and the DOD Juicebox. reasoning:

TS-5: very low, subtle mid hump which is more like a RAT. makes a good boost and/or slight OD. The rest of the tubescreamers have too much mids.

Juicebox: At the lowest setting it adds only a boost, no gain. Gain can get very very messy at high settings, so roll off it a bit. Also has a 2-knob EQ which is handy.

FUZZ

this is a pretty subjective type of stompbox. be aware, you can get sounds from famous fuzz pedal dirt cheap if you know where to look. some work better with lots of reverb than others. here's my recommendations:

Danelectro French Toast: Sounds pretty much exactly like a Fender Blender, but even more ugly and dirty. beautiful. more agressive than a Muff with the switch up and it works perfectly with tons of reverb with the switch down because of the octave. love these things, i need to pick up another.

DOD FX52: Poor Man's big muff, not much more to be said. buffered bypass

and just for fun

Roland BeeBa: if you find one of these for under $300, hell, even $400USD, BUY IT. that is all.

And of course there's the Big Muff and all of it's clones, don't need to go into detail there.

there are wayyy too many fuzz pedals. old ibanez fuzzes are great as well.

DISTORTION

the RAT and RATII work better with huge reverb than 95% of the pedals out there. this should really be on the top of your list. can produce infinite sustain with a dark boost/compressor/sustainer and the most natural feedback ever from a box. these pedals work very well for both ambient stuff and for normal applications.

The Boss HM-2 is also a wiiiicked good pedal. Kevin Shields - MBV, what else can i say? very, very, very nice for big walls of distortion.

also, the Boss DF-2 (OR DS-1) work very nicely for this application. The DF-2 is nice for looping synthy feedback parts and messing around with. The lack of definition in this distortion circuit actually works pretty nicely with big reverbs.

again, the big muffs are pretty typical as well. not much to say there.

MODULATION

Phasers, chorus, flangers, and pitch shifting are all really cool tools you can use on top of big ambient swells or huge walls of distortion. I'm not too huge on mod pedals, mostly delay and reverb to be honest, so this section won't be as big as those.

PITCH SHIFTING

for adding octaves, i like the EHX Micro Pog and the Octave Multiplexer. great tracking and can really add a lot of dynamics to your fuzz tones or drones. there's not much really to say here, i'd just recommend trying out those two.

for bending, the Digitech Whammy comes to mind, but honestly i've stayed away from those. as useful as they seem, they're pretty "toyish" (for lack of a better word) and do not have very good tracking. I'd actually recommend installing a Bigsby (or something similar, like a Les Trem (no routing OR drilling)) to your guitar rather than a whammy pedal. the only reason i'd buy one is to bend ebow sounds without my hands, and i'd only get one used/for a really good price. eBow + bending = good

The Boss PS-3 is a MUST HAVE for ANY ambient rig. My favourite pitch shifter by far. great delays too. The PS-5 is missing a couple modes that make the PS-3 that much better. the PS-2 is good as well, it is THE Slowdive pedal.

PHASERS and FLANGERS

the EH Small Stone is the best easily available pedal for ambient music. the MXR phase100 is good as well, and is well liked by some, but not too much by me. they both have awesome really air-y textural sweeps and sound reeeeallly cool on top of swells. I'd also recommend the DOD FX20b if you're on a budget. even if you're not, it's still good. the Mutron Bi-Phase is by far my favourite Phaser. Boss doesn't do phasers very well.

Not too much to say about Flangers. I picked up a Boss BF-2B (bass flanger) the other night for $50. I'm going to mod it for self oscillation. Flangers can be sort of cool at a very deep range and high rate to give a swirly sort of effect - i'm not really into them though. If you're getting one, grab the DOD FX75-B (the older one) kicks ass. or an older Boss BF-1.

*** It should be noted that when looking at DOD pedals, DO NOT pay a lot for them, and try to get the ones with the plastic switches as opposed to the rubber feet (tend to be very annoying and sticky). For intance, the DOD FX75-B SHOULD NOT cost you more than $60 if it's in immaculate condition. Same goes for the DODFX90 Analog Delay, $75 tops. Prices CDN/USD. ***

TREMOLO

SIB! Treminator. wiiiicked tremolo pedal. Two tremolo's in one unit actually. although it's "boutique" they're like $120 new or something. the Dano trem is cheap and pretty decent. I use a Boss TR-2 because it's solid as hell and i got it in a trade. THE VOLUME DROP IS VIRTUALLY NON EXISTANT. if you come across a good deal, do not think twice about the notorious "volume drop" - it is very very slight, and can be expected with most lower end tremolo's.

CHORUS

This should only really be used in ambient music to add a bit of shimmer to your long reverbs or sometimes leads. Should not be laid on too thick or used to often, because chorus, I find, can sound extremely tacky. obviously the old Boss CE-1's are amazing (but expensive/rare), but if you want to be safe, go for an EH Small Clone. My favourite chorus is the old Boss Dimension C. wiiicked sounding. Again, try and pick up the old DOD choruses - FX60 and FX64 Ice Box. I don't really like the FX65. almost any Boss chorus will work if you don't want to use it too much though, if you can get a really good deal one on it definitely wouldn't hurt to pick one up.


TECHNIQUES

BOWING

I'd recommend using something larger than a violin bow to start out with because it's easier to learn with a bigger bow. MAKE SURE you use a good amount of ROSIN, or else you won't really get any sounds. Use ROUNDWOUNDS, not FLATWOUNDS because it is much harder to grip the strings. Use a cheap guitar AND/OR cover your pickups with tape or a wrap of some sort to prevent rosin from falling into your pickups. Be prepared to change strings quite frequently. Arching your string saddles can also help a bit as well.

To get my favourite bowing sounds, I use (in this order) a slight overdrive/volume boost from my Rat, a little bit of analog delay (slower setting, medium repeats), looots of reverb from my RV-3 afterwards. Add a pinch of modulation as you see fit. Chorus works nice for shimmery, very subtle/slow sweeping phaser/flanger is okay for whooshy. whatever you do, don't overdo the modulation while bowing, it sounds honky. keep the dry signal prominent on all your effects except maybe the reverb.


if you want any info/my opinions on amps, guitars, techniques, other stompboxes, or anything, just ask.

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stradivari310

^ /thread

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xwearesinking

hahaha.

i'll add modulation and maybe amps later on i guess.

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TheSeventhOne

You're a god amongst mere mortals, xwearesinking.

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colin617

This is just a side project we are doing for fun. My everyday band is of the power pop variety. If you want to hear the post-rock stuff, you'll have to catch us in Charlottesville or DC.

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xwearesinking

sigged, haha.

it's actually more like "sub-human" as opposed to "god" seeing as i have no life.

it's become apparent to me that i've missed a bunch of stuff in my first post, i'll go back and fix it now. i guess i'll just keep going back to edit it and add more sections.

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stradivari310

You should make a new thread or something, or put all the info in a blog. Experimental wannabes like myself will probably need it later

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RG_FANMAN

I WAS gunna post some stuff, but xwearesinking beat me to it. I'll just add some of my thoughts based on the stuff I own.

I can vouch for the DS-1 being a grea pedal for crunchy rhythms in post rock (since the group I'm jamming with is into post/progressive/experimental rock). I use it with a Peavey Enforcer while jamming, and it sounds good in front of ANY clean or cleanish amp. Sadly, it doesn't sound so good on my Mesa, but I'm looking into an amp to use strictly for post rock stuff. In which case, Bascially any loud clean amp will do well. Good choices; Ampeg V4, just about any Sunn product, Fender Hot Rod Deluxe or Deville, etc.

I can also vouch for a muff style pedal being insane. I absolutely LOVED the distortion from my friend's Russian Muff. But two things irked me; A) NO POWER SUPPLY. Two hours of playing and you need another 9 volt battery. B) REVERSED INPUTS. Talk about a bitch when it comes to setting up other pedals to it. All the pedals I was using were arranged crazy like Picasso's Guernica. Still, I have to admit I was REALLY impressed, especially when put first in your chain; subtle variations in volume and picking produced really dynamic and different sounds. I really want a BYOC Large Beaver, which seems to be a really really good Muff copy and you can get one for like 40 or 50 bucks on ebay from what I've seen.

Other than that, listen to xwearesinking's suggestions and you're golden.

btw, colin617, what's the name of your group? One of my friends lives just outside of DC and likes some post rock stuff so I could ask him if he's seen you guys.

Exo M7

reverb, lol

Bahaha. I agree with the guy above me. I make what would mostly be called post-rock, and I use a HRD/DS1 for 90% of my sounds. Go figure.

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V-Picks!

xwearesinking

i've decided not to do anything tonight.

someone pick the next topic: amps or other effects

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RG_FANMAN

modulation effects? the EHX Small Stone and Clones seem to be really good, but since I don't own either I haven't had the chance to use them in a post rock setting. I really want those though.

xwearesinking

added some modulation.

that's it for me tonight, i can add some more weird stuff tomorrow.

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FlyingBeerman

The cool thing about Post-Rock is the unique sounds involved. They tend to use pretty ordinary amps, but some of the pedals I've seen on post-rock rigs absolutely made me cringe when I tried them out myself. According to Guitar Geek, Stewart Braithwaite of Mogwai has a FAB Tone in his rig. A FAB Tone! But it works for him because he's not going for some run-of-the-mill tone. So get a nice digital delay, and beyond that, just get something that you don't see on many rigs.

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RG_FANMAN

Oh yea, as I see someone else mentioned. Jonsi from Sigur Ros runs into a JCM2000 (a DSL I believe) with his les paul styled guitars (since he's got that one cool custom with a single pickup and that weird bridge). The ONLY effect he seems to use is a Boss RV-3, and his cello bow but that bow's not really an effect....I guess; more like an accessory.

xwearesinking

I'll add my thoughts on bowing (and what i know about jonsi's gear) into the big post.

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stradivari310

I'm curious to hear what other people have to say about bowing. I don't listen to a whole lot of sigur ros (at least not yet, my friend has the whole discography ) and whatever I know about it is from my own random noodling based on violin.

EDIT: After looking at the big post, I don't necessarily agree with the rosin part. I just tighten the bow extra and really dig in. Arching the bridge is a good idea though, it's a mod I hope to perform on a guitar eventually but I don't want to touch my Artcore and my other Ibanez has a trem.

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xwearesinking

So I won't be able to add anymore to my original post unforunately. It's apparently almost over 10,000 characters. balls.

BTW, Jonsi's guitar was custom built for him. It is NOT a pre-lawsuit Ibanez LP. the guy who built his guitar also built guitars for Judas Priest.

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shadow__666

xwearesinking has said most of what I had and more. For fuzz, though, look for one of the reissued (or even an older one. although they're bloody expensive) Fender Blenders. I use one for noise rock/shoegaze, and without trying it gives me some Mogwai-type sounds.

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