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Old 07-20-2015, 05:29 AM   #1
Oddly_Phrygian
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Uhm...Tone Deaf

So I just got really scared right now. I downloaded the "Functional Ear Trainer" software and at the start of it it led me through the learning method this software uses.

There's this cadence example in C major and F major where they use the same progression in C and F while simultaneously doing a melody with a D note.

It says that the D note should sound differently when played over F prog. than over C prog. and vice versa.

I can't hear the difference,the D still sounds like a D.

......so?......
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Old 07-20-2015, 05:56 AM   #2
AlanHB
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So your ear needs to be trained more.

If you were actually tone deaf, you would hate music.
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Old 07-20-2015, 06:05 AM   #3
Oddly_Phrygian
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Uhuh? I thought you'd recognize the difference in the D straight away,since it was an example and all....
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Old 07-20-2015, 06:32 AM   #4
Serotonite
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AlanHB
If you were actually tone deaf, you would hate music.


Not true. I know a guy who is actually tone deaf and he doesn't hate music. He loves music, he just cannot hum a tune at all, or match a note.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Oddly_Phrygian
Uhuh? I thought you'd recognize the difference in the D straight away,since it was an example and all....


If you were tone deaf, you wouldn't have a clue what a D sounds like. If you can hear a D and then hum it, you aren't tone deaf. Like AlanHB said, your ears just need training.

Last edited by Serotonite : 07-20-2015 at 06:36 AM.
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Old 07-20-2015, 06:37 AM   #5
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The D will still sound like D (same pitch), it's the different relations to C and F you should be hearing.

IOW, this is a matter of differentiating absolute pitch from relative pitch.

AP is the (rare) skill that enables you to identify "D" as "D", with no reference point. I.e., to recognise that pitch frequency. It's an impressive skill, but not very useful for musicians. (Luckily, because it's very hard to learn if you don't already have it.)

RP, OTOH, is essential for musicians. It's about hearing the relationships between pitches (which is how music works). Eg, identifying the difference between the sound of (eg) D against a C chord and against an F chord.
Against C, D is a "9th" (or 2nd).
Against F, D is a "6th".
That's the important difference between the two "D"s.
You don't need to be able to tell the identity of the notes and chords themselves. In the first case, you'd hear the sound of a 9th. Only if someone told you the chord was C would you be able to tell the note was D.

We all have RP to some extent (we can tell whether one note is higher or lower than another); as musicians, we just need to develop and refine it, which is fairly easy.

If you really can't tell whether one note is higher than another, then you really would be tone deaf. But that's an extremely rare condition, and - as AlanHB says - if you were tone deaf you would hate music; it would be a meaningless noise.

Last edited by jongtr : 07-20-2015 at 06:40 AM.
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Old 07-20-2015, 06:39 AM   #6
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Originally Posted by Serotonite
Not true. I know a guy who is actually tone deaf and he doesn't hate music. He loves music, he just cannot hum a tune at all, or match a note.
That's not true tone-deafness. It's just lack of training.
(I was the same before I started teaching myself guitar. I learned quite quickly how to match notes with my voice, and to hum tunes.)
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Old 07-20-2015, 06:50 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Serotonite
Not true. I know a guy who is actually tone deaf and he doesn't hate music. He loves music, he just cannot hum a tune at all, or match a note.


If he were actually tone deaf, he wouldn't be able to differentiate any tones from eachother. So C, D, E F etc - all monotone. The variations in your voice - not picked up. Music would be an extremely annoying monotone noise.
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Old 07-20-2015, 06:52 AM   #8
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Ahh lol thanks for the replies,I guess I overreacted and without thinking straight....Sorry for cluttering up the forum with yet another useless post. Punish me.
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Old 07-20-2015, 07:12 AM   #9
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^^^ Nah it's cool. The term "tone-deaf" gets thrown around all the time like "depression" or "the flu". It's only in rare cases that a person is actually tone-deaf, has depression, or is suffering from influenza, so the colloquial definitions can sometimes be a bit funky.

In your case you aren't actually tone deaf, so more ear training will work
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Old 07-20-2015, 07:14 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AlanHB
If he were actually tone deaf, he wouldn't be able to differentiate any tones from eachother. So C, D, E F etc - all monotone. The variations in your voice - not picked up. Music would be an extremely annoying monotone noise.


Uhm...is that even possible? Surely that extends beyond music, virtually all sound would be unbearable. Sounds hellish.
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Old 07-20-2015, 07:26 AM   #11
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Originally Posted by Oddly_Phrygian
Ahh lol thanks for the replies,I guess I overreacted and without thinking straight....Sorry for cluttering up the forum with yet another useless post. Punish me.

You are hereby sentenced to read the rest of this thread, with all the unnecessary extra posts (starting with this one...)
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Old 07-20-2015, 07:28 AM   #12
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^^^ Yeah man, it would be pretty hellish. I'm no doc but I believe it can be caused through brain damage/brain defects.
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Old 07-20-2015, 07:28 AM   #13
jongtr
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Originally Posted by Serotonite
Uhm...is that even possible? Surely that extends beyond music, virtually all sound would be unbearable. Sounds hellish.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amusia

some interesting case histories here:
http://www.art-13.ru/sites/default/...usicophilia.pdf

Last edited by jongtr : 07-20-2015 at 07:31 AM.
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Old 07-20-2015, 10:55 AM   #14
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Well the good news OP is that now that you know, you can start training those ears. You'll be doing atonal solfege in no time if you start singing and traning now.
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