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Old 12-05-2009, 08:41 PM   #61
clayonfire
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Well, on an electric, you can get away with stuff like minor fret buzz that doesn't get picked up really easily. On an acoustic, you hear everything. On an electric, tapping isn't too difficult. On an acoustic, if you don't do it right, you'll get a VERY BAD sound, and it requires a lot more volume/finger strength to actually be heard. Also...try playing an electric guitar song on your electric; now try it on your acoustic. Not as easy, is it?

And Obeythepenguin, those links fit wonderfully in with your statement. I laughed.
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Old 01-29-2010, 11:18 AM   #62
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There is a vocal segment who seem to think that if you play acoustic, then you're somehow more literate than if you play electric. Electric players are knuckle draggers who can't put together a cohesive sentence. Obviously it's not true, but don't let the truth get in the way of a good story!
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Old 01-29-2010, 08:52 PM   #63
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Starting off on an acoustic is a lot better than electric. Your fingers become very hard and you put more effort into sounding it out , hammer on/pull off, bending - everything.
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Old 01-29-2010, 09:18 PM   #64
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^ I wouldn't say better... but I would say that it helps finger strength development and learning to play much cleaner. There's no distortion to let you cheat.
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Old 02-15-2010, 07:43 PM   #65
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I was going to add something relevant to a bunch of recent posts, but I can't remember what the hell it was. So, until I figure that out, I'll use this post as a little bump. Those who haven't seen this thread, read up!
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Old 02-15-2010, 07:57 PM   #66
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*waits for a report from the same nubs who report all of the NGD threads in here*
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Old 02-15-2010, 08:30 PM   #67
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Does age really make alot of difference in sound with solidtops?
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Old 02-15-2010, 08:48 PM   #68
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Originally Posted by Jiggzy.UK
Does age really make alot of difference in sound with solidtops?

Opinions aside, there is no evidence beyond hearsay that says aging makes any physical improvement to the guitar.

I suspect any "improvements" come from being very familiar with the guitar, the player himself improving, or the concept that "old is cool." Wood doesn't change much as it gets old. Phrases like "grains loosening up" are essentially nonsense and lacquer hardening is completely negligible.
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Old 02-15-2010, 09:16 PM   #69
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Originally Posted by GC Shred Off
Opinions aside, there is no evidence beyond hearsay that says aging makes any physical improvement to the guitar.

I suspect any "improvements" come from being very familiar with the guitar, the player himself improving, or the concept that "old is cool." Wood doesn't change much as it gets old. Phrases like "grains loosening up" are essentially nonsense and lacquer hardening is completely negligible.

Although there is no proof that age improves sound, that hasn't stopped people from "synthetically" aging woods by blasting them with sounds waves

My opinion is that age does affect tone, but to say for better or worse isn't my place to choose. They say the wood with tighten up more so over the years - key word "they say".

Last edited by |Long| : 02-15-2010 at 09:21 PM.
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Old 02-15-2010, 09:18 PM   #70
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^ I always felt the longer you played the same instrument, the more accustomed & dull it sounds to your ears.
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Old 02-15-2010, 09:35 PM   #71
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I've actually heard some arguments that it's not the wood itself that improves, but something about the finishes which make the wood sound better over time. They argued it from that position because Stradivarius' violins sound absolutely phenomenal and they say that the finish is the biggest factor to it.
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Old 02-15-2010, 09:44 PM   #72
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Originally Posted by captivate
I've actually heard some arguments that it's not the wood itself that improves, but something about the finishes which make the wood sound better over time. They argued it from that position because Stradivarius' violins sound absolutely phenomenal and they say that the finish is the biggest factor to it.

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Originally Posted by Construction
While Stradivari's techniques have long been fertile soil for debate and not fully understood by modern craftsmen and scientists, it is known for certain that the wood used included spruce for the harmonic top, willow for the internal parts and maple for the back, strip and neck. There has been conjecture that this wood was treated with several types of minerals, including potassium borate (borax), sodium and potassium silicate, and vernice bianca, a varnish composed of Arabic gum, honey and egg white. He made his instruments using an inner form, unlike the French copyists, such as Vuillaume, who employed an outer form. It is clear from the number of forms extant that he experimented with some of the dimensions of his instruments throughout his career.[1]


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Originally Posted by Sound Quality
Above all, these instruments are famous for the quality of sound they produce. However, the many blind tests from 1817 to the present (as of 2000) have never found any difference in sound between Stradivari's violins and high-quality violins in comparable style of other makers and periods, nor has acoustic analysis.[2] In a particularly famous test on a BBC Radio 3 program in 1977, the great violinists Isaac Stern and Pinchas Zukerman and the violin expert and dealer Charles Beare tried to distinguish among the "Chaconne" Stradivarius, a 1739 Guarneri del Gesú, an 1846 Vuillaume, and a 1976 British violin played behind a screen by a professional soloist. The two violinists were allowed to play all the instruments first. None of the listeners identified more than two of the four instruments; two of the listeners identified the 20th-century violin as the Stradivarius.[3]

The violinist Christian Tetzlaff formerly played "a quite famous Strad", but switched to a violin made in 2002 by Stefan-Peter Greiner. He states that the listener cannot tell that his instrument is modern, and he regards it as excellent for Bach and better than a Stradivarius for "the big Romantic and 20th-century concertos."[4]


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Originally Posted by Blind Test
A golden age Stradivarius and a biotech violin were played as part of a five-violin blind test in September 2009 at the 27th “Osnabrücker Baumpflegetagen,” a German conference on forest husbandry. The tone of the engineered instrument was considered superior by the most listeners during the test. [5]

The violin, christened "Opus 58", was crafted by Swiss violin maker Michael Rhonheimer from wood treated with fungus by Empa researcher Francis Schwarze. The remaining non-Stradivarius violins were also made by Rhonheimer, two from untreated wood and one more from treated. All violins were played by British violinist Matthew Trusler. The Stradivarius played belonged to Trusler himself; made in 1711 in Cremona by Antonio Stradivarius it is valued at two million dollars.

Trusler played all instruments behind a curtain. Conference participants along with an expert jury participated in judging; 113 listeners misidentified the sound of Opus 58 as the Stradivarius'. 90 out of 180 listeners preferred the tone of Opus 58, while the Stradivarius itself coming in second with only 39 votes.

The wood used to make Opus 58 had been treated the longest, nine months. Schwarze treated Norwegian spruce with the fun*gus Physi*por*i*nus vit*rius and syc*a*more with Xy*laria lon*gipes. These fungal species reduce wood density without degrading the compound middle lamellae, when kept to earlier stages of decay.

Microscopic analysis of treated wood, along with resonance frequency testing to measure five physical properties (density, modulus of elasticity, speed of sound, radiation ratio, damping factor) have revealed a reduction in density, accompanied by relatively little change in the speed of sound. According to this analysis, treatment improves the sound radiation ratio to the level of cold climate wood considered to have superior resonance. [6]

So who knows.
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Old 02-16-2010, 12:49 AM   #73
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Well spruce does need a break in period but thats usually not too long at all. A quality nitro finish is forever changing however so I would guess that most of the sound change on an instrument would be more related to that.
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Old 02-16-2010, 10:49 AM   #74
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Quote:
Originally Posted by |Long|
Although there is no proof that age improves sound, that hasn't stopped people from "synthetically" aging woods by blasting them with sounds waves

Those machines are a sham, sadly.

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A quality nitro finish is forever changing

The change is extremely small. Once the initial curing is done, the cross-linking is essentially stable forever.

Last edited by GC Shred Off : 02-16-2010 at 10:54 AM.
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Old 02-16-2010, 07:02 PM   #75
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Dryness of the wood has a much more profound tonal effect [more so structural] than age.
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Old 02-16-2010, 07:31 PM   #76
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i grew up playing classical, and never really did take to picks even all these years later. i once spent 3 months playing guitar and bass only with picks, and i did improve, but i didn't enjoy it much so i happily went back.


I started with fingers on classical and used a pick when I got my electric...I now rarely use a pick on electric...like Mark Knopfler said "I have 5 fingers and they are all attached to my hand and my hand is attached to my brain'.

I'll only use a pick on accoustic when doing some rock-a-billy...or a distinct 'picking tune' tune like 'Hotel California.'
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Old 02-16-2010, 08:19 PM   #77
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I think the Penguin's post at the top of the page has to be one of the funniest things I've read in a long time on UG.
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Old 05-26-2010, 12:17 PM   #78
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Here's another myth, inspired by some recent posting by confused, overwhelmed, or otherwise unhappy guitar players. It's a recreational hobby, everybody. Don't stress over it.

Myth: Guitars are complicated.

Truth: Guitars aren't complicated.

Explanation: Think about this. What do you say when you go to grab your guitar to make sound? You probably wouldn't say "I'm going to understand guitar" or "I'm going to learn about the intricacies of the guitar," you would say "I'm going to play guitar. It sounds ridiculous, but it shows an idea that I think some readers could benefit from if they'd consider it for a moment.

To phrase it strangely, there are lots of things that can be known about acoustics. No one will deny that. Sadly, the simplicity of the art is often clouded by things like learning to effectively use augmented chords, understanding the relevance of truss-rod relief, and debating the merits of bronze versus phosphor-bronze strings. Of course, I do recognize that this is a forum to answer questions about these types of things, but a few unsettled posts from some members have given me the impression that there are readers who think they've in some way jeopardized their playing by, just to pick a few goofy examples, "not boiling their strings," (which is stupid, please don't do it) or holding their picking wrist out slightly more, or some other trivial thing.

It's one thing to be concerned if you've bashed a hole through the headstock of your guitar, but the goal of my post is to ease anxieties about the less important, "finer" qualities of the hobby. Remember that just because the aim of this forum is to deliver information, which it does quite well, learning guitar isn't only about understanding it and getting everything perfect. It's about enjoying it.

It took me a few years of playing before I could get away from the fear of filing saddles, or wondering if it was OK that my pinky, ring, and middle picking fingers hung out strangely as I picked. I don't even bother trying new strings anymore, because having a slightly different wind, coating, or alloy doesn't make me any happier, regardless of how subtly they change the sound. I guarantee that if those afflicted readers can relax a bit, you'll improve in leaps and bounds, even if you don't have a fossilized whale penis nut and saddle.

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Old 05-26-2010, 02:47 PM   #79
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It's as simple and as complex as you want to make it :dunno:
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Old 05-27-2010, 12:48 PM   #80
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It's as simple and as complex as you want to make it :dunno:

Yep. So if you don't want it to be a science, don't look at it like a science.
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