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Old 06-06-2009, 04:08 PM   #1
Progbass92
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Confluence- Progressive Instrumental (GP4/5, MIDI) C4C

Okay... Here's a new instrumental called "Confluence". It's basically something where I experimented with a bunch of genres across the board from jazz and prog rock, to hardcore. It's pretty much all over the place, which was done on purpose.

Some specific concerns are:

Mixing- What's too loud/quiet? How should I pan the tracks?

Organization- How well does the song flow?

Solos- self explanatory

Overall Memorability and Impression- also self explanatory

Any other suggestions are welcome and a rating would be nice too.
NO RSE

Thanks and enjoy.
C4C as always.
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File Type: zip Confluence.zip (45.7 KB, 404 views)
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Last edited by Progbass92 : 06-08-2009 at 02:15 PM.
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Old 06-06-2009, 06:00 PM   #2
KnownUnknown
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First let me say that this a pretty awesome song. I enjoyed that 5/8 part a whole lot. The mixing to me sounded fine, others may disagree. The only thing the bothers me is if you actually play all this.

I'd give this piece an A
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Old 06-06-2009, 06:48 PM   #3
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Why hello again Progbass. Seems like every time one of us writes something new, the other puts up theirs the day after or so Nevertheless,

Critting as I listen,

The beginning riff/section was hard to digest at first. I had to listen to it like 3 times before it actually sounded melodic, before hand it had a really jumbly feeling. Nonetheless, once I got into it, it sounded good.

Distorted guitars enterance- Cool stuff. Mixing wise, I really couldn't hear the bass that much. The organ also got lost in the mix up until bar 16, where it really came to the forefront, and sounded great.

Bar 31 had your typical trademark of throwing like a bajillion instruments into the mix, and having something totally random come out. It sounded great, but was really confusing. Must be the DT influence . Also, on bar 38, cut the notes on the bass that weren't tapped. They're extremely onerous, and don't do anything good for the song.

The part in repeats brackets was nice. Very melodic. If you're not set on making this instrumental, I'd suggest vocals here.

I really like the 7/8 part. Not sure why per say, but it's really cool, as was everything till you got to 5/8.

5/8 took the song in a whole new direction. Much more chill, a lot less jumbled. The solo-thing was cool. The clean melody starting on bar 113 was really evil sounding. The harmonics and solo over it were definitely not matching the mood at all, I'd say cut those. In contrast, the organ was awesome. Totally matched the mood of the piece entirely.

The guitar solo over it was fantastic. Very petruccian, but totally fit the mood of the piece.

Drum solo was unexpected, but a nice touch.

The 4/4 part after that reminded me nearly EXACTLY of the section in Change of Seasons. I know they're different notes, but it's extremely similar. In fact, this whole song is extremely Dream Theatery. More than your other work, and yet, it works.

The section starting with 204 was cool, I liked the harmony, and the bassline was cool. I think it might've been cool to, on bar 208, half the drums. Make them 8ths instead of 16ths, just for flavor. I tried it on mine, and it sounded great. But then, make them 16ths again on 213. Then 8ths again on 216, until 16ths on 219.

I really really liked the percussive organ section. The guitar/organ melody after it just sounded totally sinister, a great touch. And the transition on 244 was great....until it just stopped. Why did you have a blank 250?

The organ thingy after that was an ok melody, wasn't spectacular. The drums under it were wayyy too filly, but the bass was cool.

I liked the melody on 283 a lot, nice touch. Also, nice job returning to the chorus. It really closed off the song well. Fade out was a good idea.

So, overall,

Mixing- I commented on above

Organization- Same

Solos- Fantastic, as always. No complaints
Rating- A. Just fix up the few things I said, and you've got a great song!

C4C? Preferably in depth, as I tried to do.
http://www.ultimate-guitar.com/foru...d.php?t=1138059
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Old 06-06-2009, 10:57 PM   #4
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Thanks a lot, but I think I have the right to defend against some of what you said by explaining my reasoning.

In Bar 38, I'll be tapping with both hands, and I wrote it the way I did because the higher notes added more to the voicing of the chords, so it all really fit in. The bottom notes were the same as before, so I don't see what the problem is.

Those harmonics you didn't like actually fit. What I used was the blues scale, and the notes before and after the harmonics, and the harmonics themselves all actually belonged to that scale.

The part that you said sounded like A Change of Seasons was actually inspired by the intro to In the Dragon's Den. I know you're thinking of the beginning of "The Darkest of Winters" in the song, but it wasn't lifted. I used the whole tone scale, DT use the minor, and then went into chromatics at the end of it. Totally different, but I see where you're coming from. I just wanted to eliminate any confusion.

The blank measure was left there on purpose because I wanted a rest there as sort of a sudden ending to sorta trick the listener.

That organ thingy was actually lifted from a guitar part in the beginning, so it adds a lot to the song actually if you listen carefully. The bass was also from the same measure, and I just used that part to help bring things back around to close out the song.

Sorry, I don't mean to sound offended, I just thought I'd explain the reasoning behind the parts that were problematic to you. Thanks for the crit though. I like the drum suggestion, so I'll use it. Thanks a lot.
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Old 06-06-2009, 11:26 PM   #5
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I'm going to crit as I listen, and I like this song a whole lot, I'm a bit jealous. Also somewhat suspicious of the name. As a side note, I don't like the drums too much, but the bass is excellent, good job on that. As for mixing, drums need to be a good bit louder, guitars a bit quieter. You should pan the two main guitars to 5 and -5.

1-5: Love the riff, nice rhythm and good use of time signature. Has a great mood to it.

6-15: This bit's too metalcore for my tastes, but it's not very generic metalcore so I'll let it slide. Looks a bit hard to play. I like your choice of chords here as well.

16-20: Still loving the riff even when it's distorted, nice mini solo as well.

29: Good riff / solo. Love the organ part here and the 16th note rests. I like how it changes at 39, and your solo phrasing is good.

48: This part looks hard to play, but it sounds excellent, keeps the same epic feel as you've had so far (kinda boring)

56: This part breaks up that epic feeling and the 7/8 just has an excellent rhythm with it, good job here.

65: One of the best riffs in the song, not much to be said here. I really love it.

97: The parts leading up to here and the parts leading up to it were jizztastic. I love it and the bluesy solo, good phrasing here as well, you're good at making leads. Nice 5/8 groove.

121: This riff just makes me want to go 'Cool riff brah'. Cool organ solo especially. I like the way you drag the riff on, the repetition makes it even cooler, and you pull it off with good use of variations.

161: This drum solo was probably 2 quarter notes too long

164: I love this riff but you can't play it. I would have to see video evidence.

172: Good riff, nothing to say here.

188: I got kind of an Avenged Sevenfold vibe here, I like it.

204: Now it sounds like Protest the Hero, the song sounds really powerful at this part, which makes it resolve perfectly into the breakdown-ish section

220: Good place and cool rhythmic variation from earlier. The organ and guitar soloes are great at this part.

249: I fvcking (kvlt) lol'ed.

251: It comes out of nowhere, but it's perfect. The bass line here supplements it really well, but I kind of wish the guitar didn't copy the bass in the variations of it.

283: The lead guitar gives off a piratey feel until the rhythm guitar gets into the higher registers. Really cool riff.

291: The perfect transition into the next (great) riff.

294: Good riff and good fadeout.

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Old 06-06-2009, 11:52 PM   #6
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Thanks a lot for the crit, bloodshed. As for the title, it represents the hodgepodge of genres in this particular song. It's a confluence of almost everything in rock, blues, jazz, and metal that I have been exposed to over the years; a confluence of influence. I hope that clears up any suspicion.

I also like the panning ideas. They worked out really well, so thanks a lot. I always have trouble with the mixing in my songs like these, so I always appreciate some help in that department.
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Old 06-06-2009, 11:57 PM   #7
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Ahh, I was just saying that because I have a song called Nonfluence.
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Old 06-07-2009, 12:01 AM   #8
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Look at the quote in your signature.

That.
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Old 06-07-2009, 12:05 AM   #9
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@bloodshed: Oh! Haha. I didn't even know that at all actually. I came up with the name while cleaning my *******. I know it sounds stupid, but it's very therapeutic and I do A LOT of thinking. It was where I came up with a bunch of parts to the song as well.

@AngrySockMonkey: Yes that. I was hoping you'd eventually see that . What did you think of the song?
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Old 06-07-2009, 12:13 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Progbass92
@AngrySockMonkey: Yes that. I was hoping you'd eventually see that . What did you think of the song?


What I meant was that is what I think of this song. You continue to amaze me (whilst filling my mind with envious plots to commit murder and steal your music) !

BTW, I like almost **** bricks when I heard the riff at 164. Seriously.. one of the craziest things I've ever heard.

Lulz @ 149.
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Old 06-07-2009, 01:40 AM   #11
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Wow, amazing. I just have a couple comments.

1st, I think when you have something like the intro riff, with the jazz guitar, use the let ring effect so it sounds a lot better (even if you don't hold the notes when you actually play it, it makes it sound good in gp).

2nd, I think at some places, you have a bit too much going on at the same time, and it's hard to focus on the guitar track and everything else as a whole.

3rd, I loved that jazz guitar/distortion "effect" you used. If you recorded it, would it be something you would record twice, or is it just something to make it sound better as a guitar pro file?

Just a couple of general thoughts though:
1, how much do you write on guitar as opposed to writing riffs out of your head? I'm just thinking of the riff at 65 cause I'd never have come up with those chords altogether just messing around on guitar.

2, do you think of the song as just one song, or as multiple movements? I just felt that with the various genre changes you have, it sounds like you were writing the song with various parts, kinda like a mini album.
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Old 06-07-2009, 02:23 AM   #12
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Well, to address some of your comments:

That "effect" with the clean and distortion is supposed to represent one guitar with a little less distortion. I'm considering pairing that with a reverb effect to give it that spacey feel that it had in midi. In this song, I completely wrote out of my head, but in other stuff like when I collaborate, I use instruments. I want this song to just be one. I like the effect of different musical directions flying at you all at one time. It maintains the element of surprise. I don't think it's long enough to be divided into movements anyway.

I'm glad you liked it though. Thanks a lot for listening.
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Old 06-07-2009, 08:28 AM   #13
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This song really reminds me of Scale the Summit, but a bit heavier. Nice.
I really liked the clean guitar intro.
Loved when the distorted guitars came in. It has a great vibe to it.
Solo at 21 was ok, but not really memorable.
Liked the idea at 31, but it didn't really develop into much.
I think bar 48 could have done without the repeat.
66 sounds great.
85 is a nice break from the madness. Perhaps a bass solo there?
The solo at 92 was wonderful, but it would sound much better if it wasn't doubled by the distorted guitar.
I didn't really like 121. It was just weird.
The rock organ solo after was cool, but not really ear-catching.
The guitar solo after it was much much better.
164 was much too technical for my taste.
Loving the harmonies at 188.
Really cool bass at 203. Can you actually play that?
Breakdown at 220 is getting old.
Rock organ solo sounds great this time. Really spiced up the music.
Sounds great when the guitar joins it.
This whole next section is pretty boring. Nothing interesting to listen to.
283 was probably the only memorable melody of the song. I liked it.
Fading out ending was ok, but I think you could end it better.


I can tell you really put a lot of work into your songs, but you need to learn when enough is enough. They tend to drag on and on and on and it gets really tiring to hear a 10 minute song with no memorable melodies. It's impressive, but not something people would want to pop in the music player and listen to. Another thing is the guitar parts tend to border on impossible to play. Again, you are a fine musician, but you have to find that median between pleasing the musician, and pleasing the audience. I used to write much more technical music than I have on these forums, but I discovered that what's harder than writing a technical masterpiece is writing something that is both musical AND memorable. Don't get so wrapped up in the mechanics that you lose the idea that inspired it.

I'm sorry if I sound a bit harsh, but it's honestly how I feel.
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Old 06-07-2009, 02:40 PM   #14
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Thanks a lot Stewie and you're absolutely right. I'm working out kinks right now in the song that will help bring the song in a more memorable direction by the end. I'll post it as soon as I'm done.
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Old 06-07-2009, 03:51 PM   #15
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I SOMEWHAT mirror the last persons thoughts that this drags on too long but I found myself loving the whole thing anyway, but it does suffer from Dream Theater syndrome of too much thrown in jam time. GREAT song though, reminds me of newer Cynic for some reason o_0

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Old 06-07-2009, 07:13 PM   #16
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Oh yea Prog like YOU have to worry about your songs being not good enough? Haha your songs are always amazing. This one was an exception for me though. This is one of the best musical peices I have ever heard in my life. I don't even know what to crit. haha.
One comment. Your use of staccatos are amazing in this song.
The solo was beautiful and the use of bending added some amazing effects and emotions for me. My only suggestion is bars 92- til the end of the solo should remain quite as the bars 92-97 were.
The overall flow in the song was pretty damn perfect. I never really felt awkward. I think you should add a transition between bar 120 and the organ part from 121 and on.
the mix was pretty good. Bass should be lowered to 14 track 2 to 12
Thats pretty much it. Good job
9.5/10
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Old 06-07-2009, 09:26 PM   #17
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UPDATED!!!!!!

I made all the mixing adjustments and added a better ending. I also lengthened and harmonized the bit at 283 so, in my opinion, it sounds a lot better. Again, tell me what you think about the new additions feel free to bring any other concerns to my attention.

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Old 06-07-2009, 09:33 PM   #18
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Listening to the ending now. Really sick. The other one was good but this is just *EJACULATION* 10/10 for this song now the mix is improved too.

Suggest and ending for me please and cirt and yadayada

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Old 06-07-2009, 09:38 PM   #19
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Already "cirt"-ed you back. Thanks a lot
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Old 06-07-2009, 09:57 PM   #20
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The first bit actually sounding like something Animals as Leaders/Tosin Abasi would do.

A lot of the piece actually. And as usual, it was all very well done. The rock organ was an interesting touch as well. Even chuggy metalcore esque stuff that I usually dont like was sufficiently good to keep me interested.

Good job.
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