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Old 11-25-2012, 04:41 PM   #1921
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Originally Posted by Nietsche
Did you also hear the one about how you can use all 12 notes of the chromatic scale and still have it be in key? What about the one about how people who go on about how theory limits creativity almost universally have a pretty limited understanding of it's precepts?


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Old 11-25-2012, 05:16 PM   #1922
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Did you also hear the one about how you can use all 12 notes of the chromatic scale and still have it be in key? What about the one about how people who go on about how theory limits creativity almost universally have a pretty limited understanding of it's precepts?

Ever heard of how people who go on and on dissecting songs with theory and arguing about technicality of it and validity of the composition because of it are generally shitty songwriters themselves?

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Old 11-25-2012, 05:26 PM   #1923
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Did you hear the one about the last few pages of this thread...
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Old 11-25-2012, 05:35 PM   #1924
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Originally Posted by CoreysMonster
Ever heard of how people who go on and on dissecting songs with theory and arguing about technicality of it and validity of the composition because of it are generally shitty songwriters themselves?


Yes, given that it employs the same tactic of conflating the fields of musical critique and analysis with skill in musical composition it came across as a more sophisticated variant of the 'WELL IF SYNSTER GATES SUCKS SO MUCH WHY AREN'T YOU IN A7X TOURING THE WORLD SMARTMOUTH' line of argument. Though I don't see the point of addressing this to me since I'm not involved in that argument to begin with. I was responding to crazysam23 who seemed to be asserting that using non-diatonic notes was 'against theory'.
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Old 11-25-2012, 05:59 PM   #1925
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Yes, given that it employs the same tactic of conflating the fields of musical critique and analysis with skill in musical composition it came across as a more sophisticated variant of the 'WELL IF SYNSTER GATES SUCKS SO MUCH WHY AREN'T YOU IN A7X TOURING THE WORLD SMARTMOUTH' line of argument. Though I don't see the point of addressing this to me since I'm not involved in that argument to begin with. I was responding to crazysam23 who seemed to be asserting that using non-diatonic notes was 'against theory'.

Exactly.

And I was just expressing my opinion on this entire circle-jerk of "my musical theory penis is bigger than yours therefor my musical taste is more valid".
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Old 11-25-2012, 07:36 PM   #1926
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Arguing about an argument? Srs

On topic, I can't really get much into djent at all. Some of the riffs are groovy as fuark, but it just hits me as something that's like a very excessively blown up trend... I compare it to the explosion of "brostep" (extremely obnoxious dubstep) the past few years. I mean, how long can a (musical) movement like that last when it's being treated like that? It's going to be deader than disco!
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Old 11-25-2012, 07:56 PM   #1927
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For one thing, the whole thing is really only blown up online on guitarist websites. There's an abundance of djenty bands, sure, but look at festivals, and who do you see? Periphery, Vildhjarta, TesseracT, and maybe once in a while Uneven Structure. That's pretty much it.

Hell, TesseracT haven't even written any new material since their first tour with Devin Townsend. Devin has written, recorded, produced and toured with FOUR albums full of new material since then - I'm not comparing a relatively young band to a seasoned veteran, I'm just saying that having no new material after almost 3 years and having only a handful of concerts is poor for the band, especially for a new band, and their constant singer troubles are really hurting their progress.

So who do we have that's djent and actually doing well and is out there? Periphery, and to a lesser extent Vildhjarta (who sound nothing like Periphery). Not exactly being blasted in all the clubs and on TV like brostep was/is. It all only seems blown up because the people who frequent online guitar forums have the feeling that it's really super popular, when in fact it's ridiculously underground - most djent artists are just dudes in their bedrooms putting their music online.


--Oh, and I guess Animals as Leaders, if you want to count them as djent. They're really popular, mostly because of Tosin Abasi's ridiculously skilled guitar work.
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Old 11-25-2012, 08:00 PM   #1928
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Periphery is one of the best things to happen to heavy music in the past decade. Just a bunch of chill dudes making some honest and really fun music. No pretentious bullshit, not too much frills, just some groovy, fun, and awesome music. Love that shit.
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Old 11-25-2012, 08:09 PM   #1929
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Well to put in another perspective I know more people in real life that listened to Periphery II than have listened to Morbid Angel properly, or Judas Priest for that matter. Not being blasted in clubs everywhere is pretty much par for the course for any kind of music that has elements of metal. But I agree that it is probably blown out of proportion on guitar websites. And the people who think that djent is going to become the new deathcore or whatever are totally out of their minds. Deathcore appealed to every super edgey scene kid going whereas djent only seems to have appealed so far to people who are heavily into music production/guitar wankery.
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Old 11-25-2012, 08:12 PM   #1930
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True, I've really only heard djent praise from other rock/ metal musicians lol. I can dig the instrumental virtuosity of AaL, but I just can't really dig their music on a personal level. But I need to give them a more honest try than just a few tunes on youtube haha (btw, I don't think I've heard anything from them that sounds "djent" like to me)

The one band I like that's been called "djent" (aside from Meshuggah lol) that I've been digging is Corelia, but I don't really hear much "djent" in them... I think calling every band that uses low tuned guitars and a bit of open string riding a "djent" band is kind of unfair haaha. These guys in particular, I really hear a modern melodic progressive rock/ post hardcore sound to them, rather than "djent" or metal. What do you guys think?

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Old 11-25-2012, 08:23 PM   #1931
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If that's djent then so is everything.

I've heard people call Strapping Young Lad djent before.

Hey guys, remember when Strapping did that djent album? Oh yeah, I remember it like it was yesterday...

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Old 11-25-2012, 08:31 PM   #1932
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Corelia is closer to what Sikth was doing to me. Not really what I'd call Djent.
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Old 11-25-2012, 09:25 PM   #1933
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I feel like you can really hear the basis for djent, especially Periphery, in Sikth.
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Old 11-25-2012, 10:29 PM   #1934
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If anything, SikTh are definitely "proto" djent. Death of a Dead Day is basically the first real "djent" album, even though it manages to avoid a lot of the clichés that the current wave of djent haven't.

Rhythmically complicated, lots of fiddly tapping parts, melodic, yet heavy at the same time, good cop/bad cop vocals, clear prog metal influence mixed in with metalcore and alt rock influences, etc Add some Meshuggah beats, cut out the actual progressiveness, and give them all 7-strings and you've basically got Periphery.
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Old 11-26-2012, 01:17 AM   #1935
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Originally Posted by piratemetalhead
There's always exceptions, some brilliant musicians can just wank around and make damn good music

I mean, does making music for money sound admirable or having artistic merit to anybody here? Well Bach was writing pieces every week for the church to make a living, and he was writing some of the most melodically interesting and creative western music of his time... I guess you just can't be too absolute with things haha


Rachmaninoff and Liszt make the most complex piano arrangements known on earth, but I'm confident they weren't going "hmmm how can I make this impossible to play?" it was more like a natural consequence of their abilities and the harmonic interplay they were going for.

Let's put it a better way. The only thing that matters is if your music is interesting or boring, (and I don't care if you're doing it just to pay for your cocaine habit)

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"Speechless in the holy way" is like my favorite lyric from that, also the "I bend my knee not, but for my own selfish desire..." outro. David Vincent sounds like Belial himself.

OT: I like Meshuggah from time to time, it's like the closest thing to djent I can stand.

Periphery sounds like a technical version of Linkin Park, so it's not really my thing.
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Old 11-26-2012, 01:29 AM   #1936
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Agreed. On another note, I've heard from some classical piano players that they feel like Mozart composed some absolutely hellish torture for the piano

I've never played piano beyond a very VERY basic level (as in learning scales, simple chord progressions, and spending half an hour trying to figure out the bassline from Miles Davis' "so what"), but I've seen some performances of Mozart's piano pieces that displayed these ridiculous feats of dynamic and technical virtuosity... lots of ridiculous "cross handed" runs
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Old 11-26-2012, 05:58 AM   #1937
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Originally Posted by CoreysMonster
If that's djent then so is everything.

I've heard people call Strapping Young Lad djent before.

Hey guys, remember when Strapping did that djent album? Oh yeah, I remember it like it was yesterday...

DJEEEENT is a way of feeling.
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Old 11-26-2012, 08:34 AM   #1938
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Originally Posted by CoreysMonster
If that's djent then so is everything.

I've heard people call Strapping Young Lad djent before.

Hey guys, remember when Strapping did that djent album? Oh yeah, I remember it like it was yesterday...

Yeah, obviously all the djent bands are just ripping off the intro to Skeksis.

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DJEEEENT is a way of feeling.

lol
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Old 11-26-2012, 11:13 AM   #1939
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Periphery sounds like a technical version of Linkin Park, so it's not really my thing.


You have to admit they put up a kick-ass live show, though.
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Old 11-26-2012, 11:22 AM   #1940
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Yeah Sikth are basically djent without the djent... and Death of The Dead Day is still probably the best prog-metal album ever (though Future Sequence definitely gives it a run for it's money)
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