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Old 08-12-2009, 07:08 PM   #61
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but the ferrari doesn't mean you'll be a better driver. I'm not bitching about my financial situation. I'm just giving a common man's POV. Noting more, nothing less.
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Old 08-12-2009, 07:26 PM   #62
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i just know ive played starter pack ibanez guitars that play and sound better than $800 dollar fenders.


riiiiight
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Old 08-12-2009, 07:26 PM   #63
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Fine equipment does not make you a better player. EVERYONE knows that. This isn't Epiphone vs. Gibson here. I never trash anyone's equipment like many others on here do. I don't care how people feel about their Eclipses compared to my Les Paul. It usually seems to be the under priveledged around here talking about the well off and how dumb they are for spending x amount of dollars for a name on a headstock. Enjoy the things you have and strive for the things you want. If you don't want a 15000 dollar PRS, buy 30 Ibanez guitars. But understand this, things with a high price tag are usually worth that because people buy them. Something is always worth what people are willing to pay. Or else they lower the price.
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Old 08-12-2009, 07:35 PM   #64
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Originally Posted by simpleben09
Hey, what has four arms, four legs, and works at McDonalds? The remaining memebers of Nirvana XD. But really, God bless Kurt Cobain, and after making that joke, God, have mercy on my soul lol

umm, dude.. Dave Grohl foo fighters? not as good, but famous as hell.
and c'mon, he was freaking Satan in the Tenacious D movie XD
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Old 08-12-2009, 07:39 PM   #65
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Whether you like it or not, the name on the headstock means and is worth quite a lot. Other people's perceptions of you, for example. If you've got LTD, they can tell you've got the lower end models, whereas a full-on ESP on the headstock is an indicator that you've shelled out for the high-end stuff, which commands more respect.

I know people shouldn't judge players on the guitar they use, but unfortunately that's just the way people work. We like to work on first impressions and what we can immediately see. That alone can be worth a lot.
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Old 08-12-2009, 07:40 PM   #66
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Dude, keyboards mostly start at $1000

That doesn't mean guitars aren't expensive. It just means they aren't as expensive as keyboards.
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Old 08-12-2009, 07:46 PM   #67
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That doesn't mean guitars aren't expensive. It just means they aren't as expensive as keyboards.

so true
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Old 08-12-2009, 07:48 PM   #68
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Originally Posted by LazyLatinoRocke
That doesn't mean guitars aren't expensive. It just means they aren't as expensive as keyboards.


We can't really compare across instruments, unless you want to compare relative costs between low and high end instruments. Even then it may be iffy. They have different build methods, shapes, sizes, materials, requirements, and different opportunities for opulence. I've read, for example, that the best of grand pianos go upwards of $180,000, probably way more.
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Old 08-12-2009, 07:50 PM   #69
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Amps are the same way at leat imo. My handmade boutique amp costs $1000 and is very high quality. I played a Bogner Ecstacy and was surprised at how terrible I sounded playing the same songs on it as I do on mine. BTW, my amp costs far less than the Bogner, yet it sounded waaay better.

Point is, just because some things are expensive only to be expensive. A custom shop carvin arguably is better than a stock PRS. Once you get to a certain point, threshold if you will, the item no longer gets better, it's merely differant. For example a cheap Line 6 amp uses cheap components and is non reliable. Tone aside, a boutique amp is built with better components and craftsmanship. I digress back to the "threshold" example. A Diezel, or /13 is no better than my amp (again tone is subjective). It's only differant.
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Old 08-12-2009, 07:54 PM   #70
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Originally Posted by IbanezDudeCK
Actually, it may not. Gibson Les Pauls and SG's are the most frequently broken guitars on earth and they cost about $2000 for a LP standard. Just go to the Rants page on Ed Roman's site. Several notable techies and players will testify the same thing. They need updated and aren't as good as other cheaper brands, its just the authenticity of the name that sells the guitars. Even Leslie West, who has been using Gibsons since the 70's wuit the brand because Dean offered to make him a better playing and more durable model at a fraction of the price.

Same goes with Fender. Ibanez and ESP, as well as others, make updated better playing and sounding guitars for less because they know how to use modern methods to produce better quality at a lower price. Also, they don't charge a few hundred dollars for their logo on your headstock

In my opinion, the fact that Fender and Gibson have so much advertising and being the begining guitarist's dream brand, as one of the biggest brands around, they can hike up their prices to almost double what it's really worth because people will buy it to have the 'official' big name brand, that way they know its legit. However, all the big names are usually old school brands that have outdated parts and designs that have been superbly out done by smaller brands, people just don't know it because they haven't tried them yet. An LTD EC-1000 Deluxe plays better, is more durable, and sounds/looks just as good and is half the price of a Gibson LP of similar stats.

Sure, woods, where its made, binding/no binding, pickups, hardware, all that goes into it, but you can build your own Gibson or Fender that is more comfortable to you, and possible sounds better, and has all the same features at a fraction of the price.

Nobody? Nobody noticed this?
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Old 08-12-2009, 07:57 PM   #71
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Build quality.

I can't say much because I got my American strat NEW for $550, but honestly, the upgraded harware and craftsmanship are amazing. It may not be worth $2000 but you can really fell the differance. I could've gotten a mexican strat and upgraded the hell out of it and had one hell of a guitar but it just doesnt compare to the quality of the wood, neck carve, fret dressing and materals, etc.

Thats just my 0.02
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Old 08-12-2009, 08:00 PM   #72
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You have not played Ibanez starter pack guitars that sound and play as good as 1000 dollar Fenders. This is B.S.


lol what?

Fenders are amazing, they only sound like crap if you plug them into a 5150 and expect metallica.
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Old 08-12-2009, 08:07 PM   #73
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I appreciate that fact that that PRS is an absolute work of art and one of a kind. However there comes a point where things start to get absurd. I can see no justifiable reason for a guitar to cost $3000 more than my motorcycle. 15,000.00 and I can't even ride it.
Call it different priorities, I can't imagine that a 15000 guitar sounds 13000$ better than a nice Gibson or even an ESP standard or custom shop.
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Old 08-12-2009, 08:10 PM   #74
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Originally Posted by simpleben09
Hey, what has four arms, four legs, and works at McDonalds? The remaining memebers of Nirvana XD. But really, God bless Kurt Cobain, and after making that joke, God, have mercy on my soul lol



well ..thats ******ed...Dave Grohl went off the make the Foo Fighters
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Old 08-12-2009, 08:13 PM   #75
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Originally Posted by Megdidar
I appreciate that fact that that PRS is an absolute work of art and one of a kind. However there comes a point where things start to get absurd. I can see no justifiable reason for a guitar to cost $3000 more than my motorcycle. 15,000.00 and I can't even ride it.
Call it different priorities, I can't imagine that a 15000 guitar sounds 13000$ better than a nice Gibson or even an ESP standard or custom shop.

You just justified it. Also, besides being a Private Stock (pretty much PRS's CS), it's a 513, which is one of the most versatile guitars and a very sought after PRS. And they clearly aren't looking at the average guitarist when pricing that. It's mainly a collector's piece. It's kind like buying a Lamborghini; you don't buy one because you can afford one, you buy one because you can afford five.
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Old 08-12-2009, 08:18 PM   #76
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Ninja Penguin I agree. I was saying that to T.S. who claims he has done this. I said he is lying that he has played Ibanez starter packs that are better than 800 dollar Fenders.
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Old 08-12-2009, 08:20 PM   #77
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I don't really consider that justifying it though. I'll leave it at priority. I personally though think that there is a huge disparity between what you're paying for and what you get. Though as Howard Clark (very well known and renowned sword smith) said during an interview when someone brought up the price of his work, " I can't afford to keep my swords any more than you can afford to buy them."
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Old 08-12-2009, 08:23 PM   #78
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Originally Posted by Megdidar
I don't really consider that justifying it though. I'll leave it at priority. I personally though think that there is a huge disparity between what you're paying for and what you get. Though as Howard Clark (very well known and renowned sword smith) said during an interview when someone brought up the price of his work, " I can't afford to keep my swords any more than you can afford to buy them."


The nature of a lot of the most expensive things is that they seem to cost a lot more than they are worth, though. That's some of the prestige of them. Going far for excess. The marginal return of each improvement diminishes for your price increase. To the richie folks, though, the cost doesn't matter. It's the product they care about.
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Old 08-12-2009, 10:01 PM   #79
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Originally Posted by The Red Comet
The nature of a lot of the most expensive things is that they seem to cost a lot more than they are worth.



If something sells, it's worth that much money to the buyer. It may be worth more to someone else, and less to another person, but there's no blue book value or msrp for a work of art, custom piece, etc. which is why they sell them at auction.

The person who values it the most will pay the most to have it, and they won't pay more than what it's worth to them. It's the foundation of free-market economics
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Old 08-12-2009, 10:19 PM   #80
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Nah- thats not true- a $2000 dollar guitar is expensive for various reasons- but like anything else you need to be careful what you're spending that 2000 bucks on. If I bought a Zakk Wylde Les Paul, i'd be paying for the name and the bullseye finish and all that hooey. For that price you're paying for certain features and techniques.

One thing that makes an expensive axe worth it is build quality and feature quality.
For build quality, they usually have the best woods and materials. On my soloist, the name on the headstock is mother of pearl, along with the inlays, the neck is bound and the guitar's paint job/finish is hand dressed. (for the difference- look up "eerie dess swirl" and compare a japanese jackson and an american one) My japanese jackson was factory assembled, has MOTO inlays, and has a bolt on neck. The Soloist was built at the USA factory in California by a small team of people. What you're paying for is the American labor, and the attention to detail that the small domestic team provided during construction. I know who wired my guitar, who did the neck dressing and who painted the finish. Also, I know that they picked the best cut of Alder for my guitar's body. As a consumer who is spending alot of cash on an instrument, this is important to me.

In terms of electronics, the pots and electronics on more expensive guitars reflect the price paid. Case in point, my Soloist's pots and pickup switch are more solid than those found on my japanese jackson. They are all steel, no plastic to be found, and can take abuse that a professional musician can dole out. In this price, you get the best of the brand. I have a Japanese jackson with a Floyd Rose- but it isn't an original, its licensed. It doesn't do all the tricks an original can, nor does it hold a tune like my soloist. The pups in a guitar like this should be top of the line- the USA variants of the brand. Be careful with a 2000 dollar guitar with active EMGs- they sound the same in a $200 guitar as they do in a $2000 one. In a guitar like this you want a guitar with passive pups that bring out the nuance of the hopefully fine cut of wood that you get in this price range.

I can't stress enough though that when spending alot of money on an instrument, I would look to see that I am getting the best possible value for the cost. Personally, I don't get why people would spend 3500 on a strat, but thats just me. If I am spending that kind of money, I would want certain features...for example, neck through, exotic woods etc.

All in all, its like asking "why buy a Maserati when I can upgrade my honda civic just as much?" In the end they both are cars, but one is just more finely executed over the other.


this is exactly what I was going to say. also, +1 for the SL2H. best guitar I've ever owned or played
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