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Old 10-08-2009, 01:53 PM   #61
lobster624
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right, just making sure. breaking the lick in half might help. as in, work on it going up over and over and then work on it going down over and over.
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Old 10-23-2009, 11:25 AM   #62
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um what is a "reverse hammer" and how is it any different than a pull-off?

just recently got into holdsworth as well; fantastic
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Old 10-23-2009, 05:48 PM   #63
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Originally Posted by Colton165
um what is a "reverse hammer" and how is it any different than a pull-off?


Think of it in literal terms.

Or just read the first page.
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Old 10-24-2009, 02:06 AM   #64
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I worked out a good way of learning how to do this is by watching chapman stick lessons
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-3Vm...feature=channel

that guy is awesome

Edit: dont let the notes ring over if you want to sound like holdsworth
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Old 10-30-2009, 09:09 AM   #65
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I love Allan and he's irreplacable - there will only ever be one. I plan to see him next time he's through England (possibly Ireland?). There's very little I can really add to this thread, but I'm really happy to see it.

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Ruhkukah


Omg. The slide stretch beast lick in that blows my mind every time - and the way Holdsy references the previous keyboard solo as well.

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I always find myself giggling at Peril Premonition, where Holdsy says " 'Ello! Is thut the frunt desk?!" in the thickest of Bradfordian accents.


Best of it is the change to the sunny ending of the song after all that incredible atmosphere.

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When you see him up close doing his thing, he makes a guitar look like a toy whilst playing.


Thats the second time I've heard exactly that phrase used to describe Holdsy live.

By the way, anyone had any Holdsworth Demon Brew?

Also, who has which transcription books and what you think of them?
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Old 10-30-2009, 12:30 PM   #66
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I like his clean chorus chordy stuff and his outside fast playing, yet his slower melodic side leaves a lot to be desired IMO. There's little flow and his vibrato (or lack of) makes his playing sound cold and expressionless.
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Old 10-30-2009, 04:40 PM   #67
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Originally Posted by griffRG7321
I like his clean chorus chordy stuff and his outside fast playing, yet his slower melodic side leaves a lot to be desired IMO. There's little flow and his vibrato (or lack of) makes his playing sound cold and expressionless.


burn this heretic.
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Old 10-30-2009, 06:42 PM   #68
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^ I can see where he's coming from, though. From what I can deduce, there seems to be 3 camps of Holdsworth appreciator - the first kind (such as myself), who marvel in awe at everything he does; the second kind (like griffRG7321), who may not find all aspects of his playing to be so appealing; and the third, who just don't 'get it' and disregard him as some misguided hack of a fusion player, simply through lack of comprehension.

As for this quote in particular...

Quote:
Originally Posted by griffRG7321
his slower melodic side leaves a lot to be desired IMO. There's little flow and his vibrato (or lack of) makes his playing sound cold and expressionless.


... all I can say is that his lead style cannot possibly hope to appeal to everyone. There's just no way it can. Inevitably you're going to have your Paul Gilbert worshippers who go absolutely apeshit upon hearing him add some "oh-so emotional and meaningful" vibrato to a single note, whilst some of us go similarly apeshit at the sound of Holdsworth doing a long-ass legato slide from one note to a (seemingly) completely random one.

IMO the idea for us, the latter, is that Holdsworth's shifts whilst playing slow are intended to throw our brains off. It's not designed to be your simplistic Gilbert rock n' roll party with a good time to be had - rather, I've always interpreted it as music to make the mind think. So whilst some may find his lack of "flow" or explicit direction to be "cold" and "expressionless", I find it a joy to listen to. It keeps me on my toes with the anticipation of what crazy shift or subtle nuance he's going throw at my ears next.

A great example of this would be in Low Levels, High Stakes, at the precise part where his distorted lead tone enters the song (somewhere in the middle, after the keys and bass solo). Listen to it and tab it out. Look at the note order and play it for yourself. None of it makes any sense whatsoever, does it? I mean, sure, Shawn Lane often ventured into outside playing but that is some seriously weird shit Holdsworth is doing!

The guy throws 7 chromatic notes together, sequenced in a totally dissonant way that only has 3 notes which are diatonically connected to it somehow (which at least creates some consonance), yet there doesn't appear to be any kind of reasoning for why he's choosing those notes - but to him, it all makes perfect sense. I just love that. We're hearing the ideas of a man who has no regard for what the audience would perceive as "normal", but is completely normal to him. All we can do is sit and wonder, and enjoy it if we want to.

So yeah, this "emotion" stuff is overrated when it comes to guitar. Sometimes I genuinely want to think about the notes being played, as opposed to "letting go" and all that lame shit I often hear about David Gilmour's playing.

Last edited by DaFjory : 10-30-2009 at 07:39 PM.
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Old 10-30-2009, 06:45 PM   #69
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Got Secrets and Metal Fatigue today, not bad. Not really given them enough of a chance, though.
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Old 10-30-2009, 07:34 PM   #70
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I really dig his slower playing, actually - some tasty lines (and vibrato!) in the Devil Take the Hindmost solo, some beautiful whammy stuff...

I dig his slower playing more in every era than his early fast stuff (although the wide interval shit is awesome throughout).
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Old 10-30-2009, 10:18 PM   #71
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DaFjory
^ I can see where he's coming from, though. From what I can deduce, there seems to be 3 camps of Holdsworth appreciator - the first kind (such as myself), who marvel in awe at everything he does; the second kind (like griffRG7321), who may not find all aspects of his playing to be so appealing; and the third, who just don't 'get it' and disregard him as some misguided hack of a fusion player, simply through lack of comprehension.

As for this quote in particular...



... all I can say is that his lead style cannot possibly hope to appeal to everyone. There's just no way it can. Inevitably you're going to have your Paul Gilbert worshippers who go absolutely apeshit upon hearing him add some "oh-so emotional and meaningful" vibrato to a single note, whilst some of us go similarly apeshit at the sound of Holdsworth doing a long-ass legato slide from one note to a (seemingly) completely random one.

IMO the idea for us, the latter, is that Holdsworth's shifts whilst playing slow are intended to throw our brains off. It's not designed to be your simplistic Gilbert rock n' roll party with a good time to be had - rather, I've always interpreted it as music to make the mind think. So whilst some may find his lack of "flow" or explicit direction to be "cold" and "expressionless", I find it a joy to listen to. It keeps me on my toes with the anticipation of what crazy shift or subtle nuance he's going throw at my ears next.

A great example of this would be in Low Levels, High Stakes, at the precise part where his distorted lead tone enters the song (somewhere in the middle, after the keys and bass solo). Listen to it and tab it out. Look at the note order and play it for yourself. None of it makes any sense whatsoever, does it? I mean, sure, Shawn Lane often ventured into outside playing but that is some seriously weird shit Holdsworth is doing!

The guy throws 7 chromatic notes together, sequenced in a totally dissonant way that only has 3 notes which are diatonically connected to it somehow (which at least creates some consonance), yet there doesn't appear to be any kind of reasoning for why he's choosing those notes - but to him, it all makes perfect sense. I just love that. We're hearing the ideas of a man who has no regard for what the audience would perceive as "normal", but is completely normal to him. All we can do is sit and wonder, and enjoy it if we want to.

So yeah, this "emotion" stuff is overrated when it comes to guitar. Sometimes I genuinely want to think about the notes being played, as opposed to "letting go" and all that lame shit I often hear about David Gilmour's playing.


I was agreeing with this post up until the last paragraph. To me, personally, "playing with emotion" means being to hear what you want to play, and then being able to play it exactly as you want it interpreted. Both Holdsworth and Gilmour are fantastic at this as is/was Jimi Hendrix, Guthrie Govan, Shawn Lane, SRV, Malmsteen, Morse, and Petrucci. HOWEVER, you have to admit that there is a certain appeal to being able to think up a brilliant melody that is both memorable and something your average listener can grab onto. Look at the Moonlight Sonata for example: which movement does your average person identify more with? The crazy ass arpeggios, pedal tones, counterpoint, and overall holy crapness of the third movement or the beautifully constructed and slower first movement? It takes brilliant technical skill to play the first, but in some ways it takes a better songwriter and musician to play the later (of course Beethoven had both down to a ridiculous degree). While I do greatly enjoy Holdsworth's music, there is really only a certain amount of playing I can take at a time. Eventually the whole "surprise" element of his crazy licks can get a bit old when you're expecting it.
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Old 10-30-2009, 10:19 PM   #72
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Talking

Quote:
Originally Posted by Freepower
I really dig his slower playing, actually - some tasty lines (and vibrato!) in the Devil Take the Hindmost solo, some beautiful whammy stuff...

I dig his slower playing more in every era than his early fast stuff (although the wide interval shit is awesome throughout).


You can never go wrong with wide intervals.
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Old 10-31-2009, 11:38 AM   #73
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I dunno, I think when you start the double octave displacement it gets silly.

That being said, I rarely think silly is wrong.
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Old 10-31-2009, 02:10 PM   #74
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Freepower
I dunno, I think when you start the double octave displacement it gets silly.

That being said, I rarely think silly is wrong.


Pfft. I eat double octave displacements for breakfast.
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Old 10-31-2009, 03:11 PM   #75
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just freakin' on the bass grooves on "Devil Take the Hindmost"
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Old 11-01-2009, 03:44 AM   #76
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DaFjory

IMO the idea for us, the latter, is that Holdsworth's shifts whilst playing slow are intended to throw our brains off. It's not designed to be your simplistic Gilbert rock n' roll party with a good time to be had - rather, I've always interpreted it as music to make the mind think. So whilst some may find his lack of "flow" or explicit direction to be "cold" and "expressionless", I find it a joy to listen to. It keeps me on my toes with the anticipation of what crazy shift or subtle nuance he's going throw at my ears next.

A great example of this would be in Low Levels, High Stakes, at the precise part where his distorted lead tone enters the song (somewhere in the middle, after the keys and bass solo). Listen to it and tab it out. Look at the note order and play it for yourself. None of it makes any sense whatsoever, does it? I mean, sure, Shawn Lane often ventured into outside playing but that is some seriously weird shit Holdsworth is doing!

The guy throws 7 chromatic notes together, sequenced in a totally dissonant way that only has 3 notes which are diatonically connected to it somehow (which at least creates some consonance), yet there doesn't appear to be any kind of reasoning for why he's choosing those notes - but to him, it all makes perfect sense. I just love that. We're hearing the ideas of a man who has no regard for what the audience would perceive as "normal", but is completely normal to him. All we can do is sit and wonder, and enjoy it if we want to.



Look up the nine note augmented scale (unless you already know about it )
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Old 11-03-2009, 11:18 AM   #77
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I just read the whole of this thread. Then I decided to plunder my college library for CDs (I fancied The Yes Album).

Oh hello, I.O.U. I did not expect to find Holdsworth here.
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Old 11-03-2009, 11:25 AM   #78
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Evidently his '80s stuff seems to be more popular than that of the '90s.
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Old 11-17-2009, 02:37 PM   #79
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jIC-...feature=related

This is the first I've heard or seen him use bends.

Thought I'd bring it to the table of discussion. Quite a shreddy bit of nonsense for him, so maybe some of the Buckethead/satch/etc. fans may be able to relate to it a bit more.
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Old 11-17-2009, 06:07 PM   #80
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His legato is ludicrously loud. I actually had to watch and check what he was picking sometimes there. Crazy.

Not to mention, clean and more than a little nippy. Bit dull for him imho... oh wait, now that the band's kicked in properly now he sounds like Holdsy again.

Reminds me a bit of the old Shawn Lane at 16 solo spots... lots of energy to burn off and lots of chops but the ideas lack restraint and shape. (not that that'd necessarily a bad thing but you can hear neither is used to playing effectively unaccompanied)
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