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Old 09-07-2012, 07:20 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by British_Steal
Well what I mean is the mode either has a b3 (minor 3rd) or a regular 3 (major 3rd) so each one is essentially going to work over either major or minor chords at the bare bones level.

Its not that were 'restricted' by any means, its just that certain modes tend to work better over certain chords, because they contain the notes of that chord. thats the theory of it as I understand it.

there are only 12 notes to choose from - once you have a chord, or a series of chords, you have a series of notes that will function over them in such a way as to be consonant

an example would be playing the 5th over, say, a D7 chord

but when you say that certain scales work "better" over a chord, you're setting up a boundary because those 7 notes are either consonant or dissonant and writes off the other 5 notes

modes are good to introduce accidentals - you wouldn't play a D major scale over a D7 because the M7 will be dissonant, so you have D "mixolydian" - but if you embrace modes as a method of abdicating diatonicism for a certain "flavor", you're looking at the series of notes rather than just the 12 tones functionally over a given note/chord/progression

at what point does that series of scales cease to satisfy your harmonic palate, and at what point do you consider them when you're creating the harmony you're playing over?

when i focused on scales/modes, it became a method of auto-filing note choice rather than thinking in sounds/themes, which in term affected my phrasing, rhythm, understanding of dynamics, et al within the confines of any given piece.

once you understand that there's only 12 notes, and understand their function in conjunction with other elements of the piece, you shouldn't need to be thinking of note choice much in the first place unless you're translating a thought from your head or instrument to sheet music/tablature/another person. composition, while undeniably an academic affair, needs to be accepted as a method of artistic expression beyond numerical values, and is certainly not static. i really love how xiaoxi put it at one point or another, "music is not vertical, but horizontal"

for the sake of simplicity, say we're just approaching that D7 chord

the obvious notes are 1, M3, P5, m7

in the scale that comes to mind, that would be 1, 2, M3, P4, P5, M6, m7

however, it's important to remember that you have access to the b2, m3, 5-, m6, or M7. the simplest and most easy to integrate example would be chromaticism - step-wise motion is easy to squeeze between holes in a box. you get a "flavor" from that type of movement

it's obvious why you don't use them, the b2 and M7 destabilize the tonic, the m3 turns off the M3, the tritone can destabilize the tonic, etc. and it makes tons of sense to know "i like these 7 notes, these will be what i use outside of little bits and pieces cause other than these it'll sound nasty/dissonant"

but music doesn't stay in one place. it's constantly moving, and evolving, and i'm not commenting on your merit, but diatonicism is incredibly crippling to a lot of musicians, just like scale shapes, modes - anything that puts up barriers.

you want to touch on this stuff as you're teaching someone, or as you're learning, even, but all students need to learn that music is an experimental process, and by extension, the fact that they need to learn to be self-sufficient, and that everything is gray area in music.

there's no "right" way to paint, or cook, or think. there are conventions that need to be understood, but beyond that, people need to learn to teach themselves rather than rely on another person to be expressive and self-sufficient, and every time a 15-year-old bedroom guitarist that knows nothing beyond "i want to be great" hears "this is what you need to do", it's another rut in their knowledge that will ultimately hinder them. this is why i get really douchy about modes/scales.

if you've got someone on a stable curriculum and you're teaching them "this is how we're learning now, but this isn't permanent - you'll learn to not rely on anyone or anything but yourself and your ear one day, i'm just here to assist you, not to pigeon-hole you", teach them everything under the rainbow that i complain about, but most people here are either poorly versed in music, or self-taught.

like the flavors thing, it's in the motion, the timbre, the tempo, not how the song resolves. knowing the resolution doesn't even necessarily help your "average" musician when compared to other analytic practices (like how i gush over ear training)

i was probably really abrasive in the first post but i forget there are only like 3 people here who might know my opinions on music/theory/teaching, as much as i ramble about it. i'd probably cut this post way down or at least make it more concise, but OP hasn't been on almost a year anyway
Originally Posted by theogonia777
Hail killed MT

Originally Posted by jongtr
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Old 09-07-2012, 07:28 PM   #22
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Originally Posted by Hail
is it just me or have there been an unusual amount of necros lately?

Agreed. There can only be one logical conclusion. Apparently the evil capitalist overlords that make their fortune from the spread of misinformation on modes have caught wind of MT's attempts to sort out said misinformation and so have secretly hired mercenaries to track each of us down and eliminate our voice of dissension.

What we are witnessing is an attempt to flush out each of us by necro bumping every thread on modes there is so as to coax us out of anonymity by replying. Don't fall for it my brethren. IT'S A TRAP!!!
I'm an

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Old 09-07-2012, 07:32 PM   #23
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y'all necro'd the shit out of this thread
Originally Posted by EndTheRapture51
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once a girl and i promised to never leave each other

since that promise was broken

i dont make promises any more
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Old 09-07-2012, 07:41 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by Hail
you wouldn't play a D major scale over a D7 because the M7 will be dissonant

Bitch please

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Old 09-07-2012, 08:06 PM   #25
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Originally Posted by Hail
there are only 12 notes to choose from

Prove it.

I don't know what music theory is.

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Old 09-07-2012, 08:08 PM   #26
i'm a mean bully
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i love you guys so much

and i brought up chromaticism TYVM GRIFFINBOI
Originally Posted by theogonia777
Hail killed MT

Originally Posted by jongtr
I want to be Hail when I grow up.
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Old 09-07-2012, 08:48 PM   #27
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