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View Poll Results: In or out of the EU
In 171 58.97%
Out 68 23.45%
Non-UK 51 17.59%
Voters: 290. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 11-07-2009, 02:49 PM   #21
Nietsche
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rigiddigits
"Tick here if you are a reactionary Middle England xenophobe in which case your vote will not be counted on account of you being too blinkered by mindless hate and fear of the unknown to even remotely comprehend the negative economic, cultural and social implications of leaving the EU particularly in the middle of a recession, you dick."


Oh fuck off.

The EU is a bunch of corporatist neo-liberals trying to fuck over north africa and privatise services, we should be out.
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Old 11-07-2009, 02:49 PM   #22
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Leaving the EU would be political suicide.
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Old 11-07-2009, 02:50 PM   #23
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It's not actually happening...

You think a UK government would actually consult us? :P

From what I understand about it:

The Lisbon Treaty

-Implements Qualified Majority Voting in more areas of the EU's decision-making, replacing unanimity, which would prevent countries holding the whole decision-making process up as happens a lot.
-Replaces the rotating European Council (one of the three decision-making bodies of the EU, composed of national ministers) presidency (it's currently led by a different European head of state every six months) with a fixed European Council President on a 2.5 year-term. Tony Blair is one of the main candidates for this post, which is terrifying. :P
- Creating a single foreign affairs post by merging the External Relations Commissioner with the CFSP High Representative.
-The EU will become a legal "person", allowing it to sign a treaty as the EU, instead of each separate "pillar" signing it, I suppose.
-The Charter of Fundamental Rights will be made legally binding
-The European Parliament will gain more co-decision rights, making the EU more democratic.
-Citizens' petitions to be considered by the Commission if signed by 1 million citizens.
- Combating climate change explicitly stated as an objective.
- An EU Public Prosecutor
- An External Action Service

Among others.

Yes, mostly copied from Wikipedia. :P
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Old 11-07-2009, 02:51 PM   #24
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gordon brown? isnt he the guy from batman?
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Old 11-07-2009, 02:52 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rigiddigits
I'm saying it would be foolhardy to distance ourselves from an economic giant. What's the alternative? America won't do shit for us. It works both ways - we need to have more British influence in Europe, not less. If we withdraw from the EU, we'll lose all of our privileges and influence.

I just can't believe people think that we don't need the European Union. The British Empire doesn't exist anymore.

All I meant was that hegemony is only being encouraged by having economic blocs.
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Old 11-07-2009, 02:52 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gabcd86
-The EU will become a legal "person", allowing it to sign a treaty as the EU, instead of each separate "pillar" signing it, I suppose.



I think it's more the fact that it can then appear in court, in the same way that incorporated associations can appear in court as legal persons (ie you will be able to sue the EU).

Besides, the system in the UK means that no EU law is binding unless it's put into legislation by Parliament.
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Old 11-07-2009, 02:52 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rigiddigits
I'm saying it would be foolhardy to distance ourselves from an economic giant. What's the alternative? America won't do shit for us. It works both ways - we need to have more British influence in Europe, not less. If we withdraw from the EU, we'll lose all of our privileges and influence.

I just can't believe people think that we don't need the European Union. The British Empire doesn't exist anymore.


This. Without the EU, we would be a lonely little island, losing what little influence we still have.


And I would get deported from France. :P



EDIT:

Quote:
Originally Posted by webbtje
I think it's more the fact that it can then appear in court, in the same way that incorporated associations can appear in court as legal persons.

Besides, the system in the UK means that no EU law is binding unless it's put into legislation by Parliament.


Ah, I see. Cheers

But that's mostly because the UK is stubborn, no?
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Last edited by gabcd86 : 11-07-2009 at 02:54 PM.
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Old 11-07-2009, 02:54 PM   #28
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Out.

We have no identity as it is because people come through the EU (or worse, FROM the EU) to here and scrounge off the government.

I'd vote BNP if they weren't for kicking innocent black people out, but for kicking the scroungers out.
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Old 11-07-2009, 02:56 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gabcd86



Ah, I see. Cheers

But that's mostly because the UK is stubborn, no?



Nah, it's the way the legal system works. We're dualist, which means that external law needs to be internally approved, whereas monist systems (eg France) will automatically incorporate external law, so people can instantly litigate on the basis of EU law, for example. It's just different approaches the courts in various countries have taken, I think, though I'd have to look into it because I wasn't really listening to that lecture.
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Old 11-07-2009, 02:57 PM   #30
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I don't believe I've ever heard more xenophobia than in discussions about the UK. It's quite funny, since they're always going on about how racist America is.
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Old 11-07-2009, 03:01 PM   #31
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The only thing I don't like abiout the EU is the stupid Euro. As long as we keep the Pound i'm happy
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Old 11-07-2009, 03:01 PM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rigiddigits
I'm saying it would be foolhardy to distance ourselves from an economic giant. What's the alternative? America won't do shit for us. It works both ways - we need to have more British influence in Europe, not less. If we withdraw from the EU, we'll lose all of our privileges and influence.

I just can't believe people think that we don't need the European Union. The British Empire doesn't exist anymore.

This. Especially the bolded stuff.

Without the EU, the UK would just be a floating joke. Brits who live and work abroad will be forced to get Visas or be told to piss off. Europeans coming to the UK will have to go through the same thing.

Of course, there are people who would argue this is an advantage, because then we could finally thicken up the indigenous "British blood". Whoop dee fucking doop.
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Old 11-07-2009, 03:08 PM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dirge Humani
I don't believe I've ever heard more xenophobia than in discussions about the UK. It's quite funny, since they're always going on about how racist America is.

America = Land of the free
UK = Land of the British
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Old 11-07-2009, 03:12 PM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GaijinFoot
America = Land of the free

Quote:
Originally Posted by GaijinFoot
UK = Land of the British

Eh, we're almost proud to be the shittiest country in Europe
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Old 11-07-2009, 03:14 PM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by druggietoad2k5
Out.

We have no identity as it is because people come through the EU (or worse, FROM the EU) to here and scrounge off the government.

I'd vote BNP if they weren't for kicking innocent black people out, but for kicking the scroungers out.


This is why you have no national identity.
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Old 11-07-2009, 03:15 PM   #36
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Interesting.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United... erendum,_1975

Yes 17,378,581 67.2
No 8,470,073 32.8

Almost close. :P
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Old 11-07-2009, 03:20 PM   #37
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sounds like these changes are making the EU a 'super country.' personally i think unifying such a cross-section of economies, cultures, views and policies is a bad idea.


Quote:
Originally Posted by druggietoad2k5
Out.

We have no identity as it is because people come through the EU (or worse, FROM the EU) to here and scrounge off the government.

I'd vote BNP if they weren't for kicking innocent black people out, but for kicking the scroungers out.


it's worth nothing that this problem is our own doing. Whilst most of the EU wisely implemented immigration caps; the UK, Ireland and Sweden(?) where the only three who didn't, allowing anyone and everyone from the 10 eastern countries who joined in 04 to come at will.
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Old 11-07-2009, 03:22 PM   #38
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it's worth nothing that this problem is our own doing. Whilst most of the EU wisely implemented immigration caps; the UK, Ireland and Sweden(?) where the only three who didn't, allowing anyone and everyone from the 10 eastern countries who joined in 04 to come at will.

Which has upsides as well as downsides.
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Old 11-07-2009, 03:23 PM   #39
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I didn't realize the UK was even part of the EU since you guys still use pounds.

Guess I'm dumb.
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Old 11-07-2009, 03:26 PM   #40
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Out. If we didn't get screwed over by pretty much every major decision the EU has made, it might be worthwhile staying in. As it is, the best option is to adopt a "friendly neighbour" policy towards the EU
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