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View Poll Results: In or out of the EU
In 171 58.97%
Out 68 23.45%
Non-UK 51 17.59%
Voters: 290. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 11-07-2009, 03:29 PM   #41
entity0009
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Adamtbh
sounds like these changes are making the EU a 'super country.' personally i think unifying such a cross-section of economies, cultures, views and policies is a bad idea.

http://europa.eu/lisbon_treaty/faq/index_en.htm

It's not really trying to make a super country, it's just making the EU as a whole more powerful. There is no weakening of cultural or national identity as far as I understand.
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Old 11-07-2009, 03:31 PM   #42
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Originally Posted by Perfection 101
Out. If we didn't get screwed over by pretty much every major decision the EU has made, it might be worthwhile staying in. As it is, the best option is to adopt a "friendly neighbour" policy towards the EU


Such as? All I can think of was the CAP, and possibly some of the budgets, which is shared by the other rich countries.
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Old 11-07-2009, 03:32 PM   #43
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Originally Posted by entity0009
http://europa.eu/lisbon_treaty/faq/index_en.htm

It's not really trying to make a super country, it's just making the EU as a whole more powerful. There is no weakening of cultural or national identity as far as I understand.

Maybe I'm just too cynical for my own good, but I always thought that more power for an external body would imply the nations get weaker as a direct result

EDIT: ^ OK, maybe that was a slight exaggeration. But you can't really deny that occasions where being in the EU has directly benefitted the UK are pretty scarce
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Old 11-07-2009, 03:45 PM   #44
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Originally Posted by Perfection 101
Maybe I'm just too cynical for my own good, but I always thought that more power for an external body would imply the nations get weaker as a direct result

EDIT: ^ OK, maybe that was a slight exaggeration. But you can't really deny that occasions where the EU has directly benefitted the UK are pretty scarce

Maybe not directly, but it is better to have a passive beneficial effect than an active negative effect if we leave the EU. OK, so we can kick out some of the scroungers. But around half these scroungers are British nationals or second generation immigrants anyway, which means they are perfectly entitled to stay here, scrounging. That won't fix much.
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Old 11-07-2009, 03:50 PM   #45
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Anyone who hasn't lived in a detached house of some unheard of hinterland has seen how the monstrous EU has aided in the UK becoming an utter mess and embarassment. Also, is there a link? I haven't heard anything at all of this, just that Cameron has managed to anger most his voters by refusing the ref.
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Old 11-07-2009, 03:53 PM   #46
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There is no referendum. Hypothetical situation.
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Old 11-07-2009, 04:16 PM   #47
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I voted for the third option: shake it all about
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Old 11-07-2009, 04:16 PM   #48
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Originally Posted by gabcd86
There is no referendum. Hypothetical situation.

This is a forum. Discussion is a good thing.
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Old 11-07-2009, 04:20 PM   #49
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I was just answering the people who were demanding a source, not trying to stamp out voices of dissent.

*I'll do that later*
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Old 11-07-2009, 04:47 PM   #50
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Originally Posted by Dirge Humani
I don't believe I've ever heard more xenophobia than in discussions about the UK. It's quite funny, since they're always going on about how racist America is.


Those are both ridiculous assumptions.
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Old 11-07-2009, 04:51 PM   #51
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Originally Posted by BlueTele1983
This is why you have no national identity.


Before I'm accused of it - I am NOT a racist. Skin colour has nothing to do with being an immigrant.

I have no national identity because I'm against mass immigration to my own country?

This entire NATION has no national identity because of mass immigration. Why is it in school text books there are Indian names, but not British names? Because of the Government being too limp wristed over it and they're scared of offending people who are immigrants.

Probably just as well I live in the North West where the BNP got a seat because while I don't agree with deporting black people because they're black, I do agree with deporting people who come to the UK just because it's a "good place to live" and they claim benefits because they don't want to work. I can't even claim education benefits (EMA) and I'm a British citizen, but because I live in a household where the collective income is over 30,000, I can't claim EMA. The people I live with aren't even my parents because I live with a friend, and I pay rent.

Says a lot about the state of this country, to be honest and it's sad.
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Old 11-07-2009, 05:24 PM   #52
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Originally Posted by druggietoad2k5
This entire NATION has no national identity because of mass immigration. Why is it in school text books there are Indian names, but not British names? Because of the Government being too limp wristed over it and they're scared of offending people who are immigrants.

Probably just as well I live in the North West where the BNP got a seat because while I don't agree with deporting black people because they're black, I do agree with deporting people who come to the UK just because it's a "good place to live" and they claim benefits because they don't want to work. I can't even claim education benefits (EMA) and I'm a British citizen, but because I live in a household where the collective income is over 30,000, I can't claim EMA. The people I live with aren't even my parents because I live with a friend, and I pay rent.

Says a lot about the state of this country, to be honest and it's sad.


I wish 'national identity' would go find a quiet, secluded spot and fornicate itself with a large iron-rod.

And I have two objections to the bolded statement:

1) Why else would people move to another country?
2) That's an absurd assumption, back it up with statistics, or don't expect people to take you seriously.
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Old 11-07-2009, 05:30 PM   #53
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Originally Posted by druggietoad2k5
Before I'm accused of it - I am NOT a racist. Skin colour has nothing to do with being an immigrant.

I have no national identity because I'm against mass immigration to my own country?

This entire NATION has no national identity because of mass immigration. Why is it in school text books there are Indian names, but not British names? Because of the Government being too limp wristed over it and they're scared of offending people who are immigrants.


There's no such thing as a British name. My name is Greek, and my brothers is biblical. Text-books aren't written by the government - it's just textbook creators trying to show a more realistic cross-section.

Quote:
Originally Posted by druggietoad2k5
Probably just as well I live in the North West where the BNP got a seat because while I don't agree with deporting black people because they're black, I do agree with deporting people who come to the UK just because it's a "good place to live" and they claim benefits because they don't want to work.


As someone above said, would people come to a country where they have to work harder for less?


Quote:
Originally Posted by druggietoad2k5
I can't even claim education benefits (EMA) and I'm a British citizen, but because I live in a household where the collective income is over 30,000, I can't claim EMA. The people I live with aren't even my parents because I live with a friend, and I pay rent.

Says a lot about the state of this country, to be honest and it's sad.


Wait, what? Weren't we just talking about immigration?
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Old 11-07-2009, 05:56 PM   #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by druggietoad2k5
Before I'm accused of it - I am NOT a racist. Skin colour has nothing to do with being an immigrant.

I have no national identity because I'm against mass immigration to my own country?

This entire NATION has no national identity because of mass immigration. Why is it in school text books there are Indian names, but not British names? Because of the Government being too limp wristed over it and they're scared of offending people who are immigrants.

Probably just as well I live in the North West where the BNP got a seat because while I don't agree with deporting black people because they're black, I do agree with deporting people who come to the UK just because it's a "good place to live" and they claim benefits because they don't want to work. I can't even claim education benefits (EMA) and I'm a British citizen, but because I live in a household where the collective income is over 30,000, I can't claim EMA. The people I live with aren't even my parents because I live with a friend, and I pay rent.

Says a lot about the state of this country, to be honest and it's sad.

k.

Right, now, explain the benefits and reasons why we should care about National Identity.
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Old 11-07-2009, 07:00 PM   #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by druggietoad2k5
Before I'm accused of it - I am NOT a racist. Skin colour has nothing to do with being an immigrant.

I have no national identity because I'm against mass immigration to my own country?

This entire NATION has no national identity because of mass immigration. Why is it in school text books there are Indian names, but not British names? Because of the Government being too limp wristed over it and they're scared of offending people who are immigrants.

Probably just as well I live in the North West where the BNP got a seat because while I don't agree with deporting black people because they're black, I do agree with deporting people who come to the UK just because it's a "good place to live" and they claim benefits because they don't want to work. I can't even claim education benefits (EMA) and I'm a British citizen, but because I live in a household where the collective income is over 30,000, I can't claim EMA. The people I live with aren't even my parents because I live with a friend, and I pay rent.

Says a lot about the state of this country, to be honest and it's sad.

Sounds like you and I are singing from the same hymnsheet. I'm no racist and I'll all for multiculturalism in Britain (many of my good friends are black, islamic, whatever), but would I be right in saying that you, like I, get offended when you see coverage on the news of Islamic protests trying to force Shia law on Britain? When they actively show support for the Taliban and Al Qaeda and so on, and NOT seeing them have 7 shades of crap beaten out of them? Personally, my blood boils whenever i don't see them getting bludgeoned by the police. In other countries, whatever, that's your problem, but Britain is NOT a republic, we HAVE a royal family, and we are acknowledged as a CHRISTIAN country. Personally, i'm not devout, but i would say that i am a christian, but i know that i'm in no position to force people to believe what i believe to be right with regards to religion.
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Old 11-07-2009, 07:07 PM   #56
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Originally Posted by Black Rat 1214
Sounds like you and I are singing from the same hymnsheet. I'm no racist and I'll all for multiculturalism in Britain (many of my good friends are black, islamic, whatever), but would I be right in saying that you, like I, get offended when you see coverage on the news of Islamic protests trying to force Shia law on Britain? When they actively show support for the Taliban and Al Qaeda and so on, and NOT seeing them have 7 shades of crap beaten out of them? Personally, my blood boils whenever i don't see them getting bludgeoned by the police. In other countries, whatever, that's your problem, but Britain is NOT a republic, we HAVE a royal family, and we are acknowledged as a CHRISTIAN country. Personally, i'm not devout, but i would say that i am a christian, but i know that i'm in no position to force people to believe what i believe to be right with regards to religion.


Few points:

1) We're a secularist country.
2) Paragraphs are your friend.
3) 'Shariah' not 'shia' and what the BNP wants to lead us into is just as bad as shariah law. Why aren't you annoyed with them?
4) Since when was it ok to use voilence on crowds spreading opinions?

Actually maybe '2' was unneccessary. It looked a lot longer when I first looked at it.
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Old 11-07-2009, 07:10 PM   #57
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Originally Posted by Black Rat 1214
Sounds like you and I are singing from the same hymnsheet. I'm no racist and I'll all for multiculturalism in Britain (many of my good friends are black, islamic, whatever), but would I be right in saying that you, like I, get offended when you see coverage on the news of Islamic protests trying to force Shia law on Britain? When they actively show support for the Taliban and Al Qaeda and so on, and NOT seeing them have 7 shades of crap beaten out of them? Personally, my blood boils whenever i don't see them getting bludgeoned by the police. In other countries, whatever, that's your problem, but Britain is NOT a republic, we HAVE a royal family, and we are acknowledged as a CHRISTIAN country. Personally, i'm not devout, but i would say that i am a christian, but i know that i'm in no position to force people to believe what i believe to be right with regards to religion.


66% of british people have no particular affiliation with any church or organised religion. We are a firmly secular country. You're right that the people promoting Sharia law are abhorrent but you have to understand that they're in a minority and aren't really any better than christians who base their politics off of their religous beliefs. Also a lot of groups like to overstate the threat to further some kind of broadly anti-muslim agenda as well (Like the BNP).

And people being allowed to not have the crap beaten out of them for their beliefs is called freedom of speech. You probably wouldn't like to have someone kick the crap out of you in a middle eastern country because you supported the Iraq and Afghanistan wars (Assuming you do, if not just substitute something similar) would you?
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Old 11-07-2009, 07:11 PM   #58
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Stay in the EU, the Lisbon treaty may be undemocratic but being in the EU offers more trade and work
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Old 11-07-2009, 07:28 PM   #59
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Originally Posted by aaciseric
Few points:

1) We're a secularist country.
2) Paragraphs are your friend.
3) 'Shariah' not 'shia' and what the BNP wants to lead us into is just as bad as shariah law. Why aren't you annoyed with them?
4) Since when was it ok to use voilence on crowds spreading opinions?

Actually maybe '2' was unneccessary. It looked a lot longer when I first looked at it.

1) Although I'd prefer if we were secular, the state religion is Christianity.

Anyway why are people claiming not holding influence over the world is a bad thing? Norway, outside of the EU, has one of the best standards of living in the world and it is outside the EU, and holds tiny power in the world.

What is actully wrong with states which have isolationist foreign policies?
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Old 11-07-2009, 07:33 PM   #60
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What is actully wrong with states which have isolationist foreign policies?


They aren't imperialist fighting machines with an unquenchable penchant for blood which is necessary to advance the military-industrial complex.
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