Stormx

The state religion is NOT christianity. Indeed, the only non-secular part is to do with the opening of parliament, and that is PURELY traditional.



Because if we hold influence then we get better deals. Duh.



Norway holds power because they found oil reserves in the 50s. The state poured the money into socialism and now the standard of living is relatively good. Norway holds relatively little power because the politicians are clean, and the whole system treats personal freedom above corporate interest. They're not power hungry, they're just sensible



They suffer in the long run because they don't invest in trade.

Black Rat 1214

Ok, in response to your points (this being a forum, not arguing or flaming or whatever, simply expressing my opinion (I'll move onto this point in a second))
1). Considering that the head of our state is a Christian, personally, i believe that it stands to reason that our country as a whole is based upon christian beliefs. As 'proof' if you will, just watching the remembrance service tonight, and the service was taken by members of the christian faith, and all prayers, hymns and so on and so forth were taken with regards to christianity.

2). I see your point, i was just getting my point across as quickly as possible. Normally i'm a right grammar Nazi...

3). I couldn't remember quite exactly how it was spelled or pronounced, and i meant no disrespect to anybody about it, but I'd like to make it perfectly clear that i only believe in 1 or 2 of the policies put forward by the BNP, namely the removal of scroungers and so on. If people are working or actively looking for work and really want to stay here and help the economy or any other part of what i perceive to be the british society, then they are welcome and i would not want them to leave under any circumstances. I am most certainly NOT in support of the majority of BNP policies, and therefore, do not support the BNP. (from your post, it seemed to me as though you believed i support them)

4). I'm not saying its OK to use violence on people expressing their opinions, that would in essence boil down to facism and nazism, which i am politically against having studied the topic for 4 years at minimum. I'm saying that while we have servicemen getting killed or injured in the middle east, and yet we have people preaching what our servicemen are fighting as a basis of the mandate (or whatever you call it) of the taliban, it just feels incredibly disrespectful to me, our servicemen and the families of those who have been either killed or injured in conflict with the taliban or other militant groups.


As i mentioned before, i'm not a religious person, as in i don't go to church or such unless its for specific occasions such as a christening, marriage, funeral or such, so i would say that i am in the 66%. I'd also like to say that i agree with your point that politicians that base their policies in religion are no better, and i don't want to insult your intelligence, but as i've mentioned above, i have no affiliation with the BNP apart from the points mentioned above.

I'll admit that what i put was a little on the radical side, but i said what i said and i do not believe that it should be allowed for people to spread this in a country as a unit is fighting agaisnt such a law. Again, personally, i believe that freedom of speech should be given everywhere, make no bones about it, but it should be respected. Going onto your point of having the shit beaten out of me, i personally think that i would have the respect to the people of the country where i was not to spread my beliefs if they were not concurrent with that of the majority of the country.

With regards to the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq, i do not believe that we should have gone in the first place, however, now we are there and have been for some time, i think that we should commit ourselves until the end. It's not right to start something like this and then just leave the people of afghanistan to pick up the pieces by themselves. We should stay until our objective has been achieved. My first posting when i graduate from IOT is Afghanistan and volunteered because i want to do my bit to help these people re-build their country from what i see to be an oppresive and frankly horrible regime, and that i want to instill their right to freedom of speech, which should be used within context, not just for the sake of having it.

I must say, this is quite possibly the best debate i've ever had in the pit. I dont mean to start a fight, i'm merely discussing a point that has been made. If i'm wrong, i'll admit i'm wrong. Until then, i stand by whatever i have said thus far.

__________________


This was posted right after I posted said post in a completely different thread... Whups.


"There are 3 types of people in this world... Those who can count, and those who can't."

aaciseric

1) By 'head of state' do you mean Brown or that old lady? And I don't really think that allows us to be qualified as a Christian state. We have a clear Christian history, but we have freedom of religion and a majority of people (I think) who don't identify as part of a relgion. But it's a point of semantics and not worth wasting too much time on.

3) I wasn't trying to insinuate that you're a bnp supporter. I meant the question in a very general way, because a fair number of people who complain about sharia law seem to believe we should use ways of stopping it being put in place that would be worse than Sharia law itself. Though you've presented yourself to be above that.

4) I get your point, but personally I don't find it that disrespectful. I mean, the taliban didn't really do anything to warrant being attacked, they were terrible people, but us bombing them just makes people who may have already agreed them more hateful towards us. So it's possible that our servicemen dying is helping to feed people alligning against the imperialist western countries. Realistically the way to deal with these kind of people is to reach out to them in a rational way and teach that it isn't 'Britain Vs Islam'. To me that's the ultimate goal, not chastising someone for having a radical opinion (not that i'm implying you do, i'm talking in a general sense here.)

And ditto on the last statement I quoted.

__________________
S S

Stormx

The state religion isn't defined by the religion of the head of state. Are you ******ed?

Black Rat 1214

I must say i'm impressed by your points! Extremely valid!
1. Yeah, i mean the old lady! I may be wrong, but i think that she's officially recognised as the head of state as she has the power to dissolve parliament at any time, and each year, the parliament must be invited in by the queen. Gordon Brown is a cumulative figure of parliament. But yeah, i can't really be bothered with semantics.

3. I'd have to say i agree with this one. I had a load of good points on this one but my window crashed and i lost all of them. bad times.

4. I would agree that to us until 7/7, there was no warrant to attack the taliban. However, the Americans will see differently, as it has been proven that the taliban were actively funding terrorism and terrorist organisations that had attacked their country. However, i don't think we should have gone along with them. I think that was just Tony Blair saying 'Me too!' to Bush. Still, it happened, and while we're there, we ought to stay. But yeah, it's definately not an issue of one vs the other, and i think that those with whom we are in correspondance with there are aware of that and acknowledge, and largely appreciate our mission in afghanistan.

And stormx? Its quite evident you've not read any of my posts. So i'll just put this to your mind. I'm not a ******, you muppet.

I did have a response to your post, but to be honest, i can't be bothered wasting my time.

__________________


This was posted right after I posted said post in a completely different thread... Whups.


"There are 3 types of people in this world... Those who can count, and those who can't."

Meths

I refuse to vote in your ridiculous all or nothing poll.

__________________
Is it still a God Complex if I really am God?

America is the only country that went from barbarism to decadence without civilization in between.
Oscar Wilde

webbtje

Shame the no monarch has refused royal assent since the early 18th century and that parliament is dissolved when the PM requests it, then.


I wish people would forget this whole 'the queen is still powerful' rubbish.




Also, top tip: referendums have no legal standing in the UK, so a government could just ignore the outcome anyway.

bikerboyjosh

personally, I think we should leave the EU, and trade more with the commonwealth, also I wouldn't have though that leaving the EU would stop us trading with EU members

__________________
Emancipate yourselves from mental slavery, none but ourselves can free our minds.

Bestykid

No government would ever ignore the outcome, it would be suicide for the party

SlipknotRule93

I want us to leave the EU because it costs us millions of pounds a day which we don't have and most of our laws are made by people not even from this country.

If we wanted our country to be ruled by a bunch of Europeans then you know what we should've done in 1939.

There is still a free trade organisation which non-EU countries are members of, such as Switzerland and Iceland I believe.





Depends if the referendum is held before or after the legislation is passed. If it's held afterwards then the government has to act on what the people say, which is why if there ever is a referendum it wil be held before the legislation is passed because they can still choose what they want to do with it.

__________________

Stand up and cheer if you like SimCity

Play Up Pompey, Pompey Play Up

VOLBEAT

metal_al73

we need to get the f*ck out of the EU!!!!!
this is one thing i agree with nick griffin about, he just takes it too far with his racist mannerisms

__________________

meh!

They're not 'mannerisms', he's simply a racist. It's not a little addition to his platform that's he's 'taking to far', that's the core of his beliefs. He's a racist.

__________________
On vacation from modding = don't pm me with your pish

osXtiger

I want to say out, but that is simply because we do not use the Euro.

I really haven't got a clue as to what the EU does for us, or what we do for it. I'll have to read up on it. But I think that it would be better to be a part of something than alone in the big blue sea.

(I'll be reading everyone's posts to fill in the blanks)

EDIT2: In fact. I should Re-read the ****ing OP... jesus, today is not a good day for me!

__________________

|_|0|_|
|_|_|0|
|0|0|0|
▄▀▄▀▄▀▄▀▄▀▄▀▄▀▄▀▄▀▄▀▄▀▄▀▄▀▄▀▄▀▄▀▄▀▄▀▄▀▄▀▄

EmancipatedSoul

I'm not from UK.
But that's ridiculous. The UK depends a lot on the EU in general; and on it's economy, it's traid (import/export) and etc. Leaving it would be detrimental and would probably start a zombie apocalypse.

__________________
Just some tunes

webbtje

Lolno. Let's look at it closely shall we: every bit of primary and secondary legislation and every bit of case law pre-joining the EU? Every bit of primary and secondary legislation and case law made in the UK and concerning in the UK, which by the way counts for the vast majority of what we call 'law'?





To state the obvious: the government has a habit of completely ignoring what the majority of the country actually wants (see the status of drugs). Parliamentary sovereignty dictates that, effectively, it can do whatever it fancies, and that includes completely ignoring the outcome of a referendum, should it wish to.

Nietsche

Freedom of speech is freedom of speech is......freedom of speech. It means the right to say what you want when you want and where you want without fear of reprisal. Now I understand their are concerns about cultural sensitivity and whatnot but I don't think it's enough to deny people freedom of speech. I personally think that it is not only a right but a duty in fact that people should voice beliefs that dissent against majority opinion. Let's take an extreme example.

Say it's the 1800's again and slavery is rife, moreover the large majority of people are still in favour of it. I think I would be justified in speaking out against slavery even if it was the majority opinion and I hope you'd agree with me. Again this is an extreme example yes but it serves well to demonstrate the principle.



Well what 'context' would justify freedom of speech? I mean I don't think cultural concerns are really enough to justify preventing it. If something is abhorrent you should speak up and be allowed to speak up.

As for the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq I think that commiting ourselves to the end is impossible. The longer we stay, the more the resentment grows, the more extremism takes hold and the less chance they have of rebuilding.

__________________

donender

I think if it benefits us but we still get to keep our identity, then i'm in, if we switch to the Euro and just start slowly becoming turned into somewhere like France, then thats difference, and i'm not saying there is anything wrong with France as i have never been there, but this is England (or United Kingdom).

I think British people shouldn't be afraid of their nationality, sure, there is some Irish heritage in me, but i'm not gonna be one of these idiots who claims to be Irish as i have lived in England my whole life, i am English and proud to be, and people shouldn't be afraid of offending people when they say that because its completely harmless to love ones country, then again, personally i love my country but don't particularly care for the people running it.

__________________
WHOMP

Think of that next time you are not allowed to laugh.

Bonorly

Except it's not Brown's (Labours) idea, it's the Conservatives idea. And it would take years.

Thread hijack: vote Lib Dems, then us potential univeristy students can have a blast.

webbtje

http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/...ts-tuition-fees