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Old 07-26-2015, 06:57 PM   #1
Electric Devil
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Tuning post coming out

Hey i dont know if this has been posted,But i noticed on my accousitc guitar there is some tuning post almost coming off.
I wanted to secure the post with a drop of krazy glue i just wanted to know if it would be safe to do first.
thanks
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Old 07-26-2015, 07:07 PM   #2
esky15
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First, take your string off and remove the tuner and see what the problem is. Tuners aren't costly if you need to replace the unit. I wouldn't use super glue unless it's your last resort.
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Old 07-26-2015, 07:24 PM   #3
Electric Devil
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i just took apart one of the tuners,theres a shim that goes in the hole also theres one screw under the post but its tightened up well,the tuner still seems loose is that normal?
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Old 07-26-2015, 07:43 PM   #4
davebowers
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Looking at your photo, the bezel of the 5th string tuner also appears to be lifting out. Have you checked the screws securing the tuner to the peghead? If the holes are sufficiently oversized to warrant a shim, there may be a lot of stress on the screws.
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Old 07-26-2015, 07:59 PM   #5
Electric Devil
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yup the screws seem to be tight,the hole seems to exactly fit the shim but seems to be a tad worn.
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Old 07-26-2015, 08:54 PM   #6
Captaincranky
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Well, most tuners have a nut at the top of the shaft to retain the ferrule. In your guitar's case, it simply appears that the ferrule is a press fit into the headstock. If that's the case, then either the hard metal ferrule is worn, or the soft wooden headstock is worn. So, most likely the headstock, ey?

CyA adhesive, (AKA "Crazy Glue"), would harden the headstock wood, but it's likely worn to the point where the ferrule would be loose in the hole anyway.

Stewmac's economy tuners are the same junk, with press fit bushings: http://www.stewmac.com/Hardware_and...nd3_Tuners.html

The lowest priced step up Gotoh tuner ferrules, are threaded and screw directly into the body of the tuner: http://www.stewmac.com/Hardware_and...nd3_Tuners.html

So, please take a moment to compare the different type of mounting strategy each type employs.

I think you could just pretty much throw away the trim and party on. (In that I don't believe the ferrule is a bearing surface for the shaft proper.

If that's not the way you want to go, and you like the guitar, treat it to a set of those Gotoh tuners.


You could try wrapping the bushing with plumber's Teflon tape, then pressing int into the headstock. I've really never tried that, it's something I might try in a pinch. But, I certainly don't if it would work, let alone how long it would last.

CyA makes a mess and wicks all over the place. If you go that route, be prepared to possibly incur some cosmetic damage to the headstock.

BTW, it looks like the A-5 string bushing is starting to work its way out of the headstock as well.

Last edited by Captaincranky : 07-26-2015 at 08:57 PM.
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Old 07-26-2015, 10:51 PM   #7
Tony Done
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Dont glue it! That could make future repairs more difficult. 'I would wrap a piece of tape or aluminium foil around the bush. No big deal. If you want to get picky, can put the packing on the outside of the bush so that the string isn't pulling against it.
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Old 07-27-2015, 10:14 AM   #8
davebowers
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Have you tried simply pushing the bezels back into their holes? If they aren't buzzing or rattling, there shouldn't be a problem? As Captaincranky says, you could just take them off and not lose anything but looks.
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Old 07-27-2015, 11:17 AM   #9
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treat yourself and your guitar to new and better tuners. you can upgrade to a new set for not too much money and get a better ratio.

were this on my bench and you couldn't pay me anything, i'd rotate the bushings (yes bushings, they are not ferrules which are formed sheet metal) 90 or 180 degs, re-insert, and use a small dab of titebond to lock them down when pressing them back in. this would be a short duration no money fix. the titebond's water content will swell the wood a little providing a bit more grip. titebond won't damage the finish and will do some gap filling where needed.

the root cause is that your bushings are worn and need to be replaced. the tuner shaft grinds against the nut side of the bushing hole and as the tuner is rotated, it starts to pop out the bushing. compounded by the fact that a lot of guitar mfg's use a tapered reamer to size the hole from the back side. you can see the issue. tapered hole, straight bushing, -and the bushing starts walking right on out the top of the hole.

actually you do need your bushings. they're not for looks. string tension will pull the tuner shaft to the nut side of that oversized tuner hole and wreck the tuners over time. on solid cast tuners you'll often see the retention screw broken off. on stamped tuners the base plate often gets bent and the gear set gets worn out.

the gotohs are a good replacement for the quality of that guitar. you may have to drill new mount holes and plug the old ones if the gotohs don't cover them up if you care.

Last edited by ad_works : 07-27-2015 at 11:44 AM.
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Old 07-27-2015, 12:18 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by davebowers
Have you tried simply pushing the bezels back into their holes? If they aren't buzzing or rattling, there shouldn't be a problem? As Captaincranky says, you could just take them off and not lose anything but looks.


yup i've tried that but when i put tension on the strings they go right back to almost coming out
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Old 07-27-2015, 12:20 PM   #11
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Im gonna go along with what cranky said and wrap some plumbers teflon tape for now until i can get some new tuners
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Old 07-27-2015, 01:13 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Electric Devil
Im gonna go along with what cranky said and wrap some plumbers teflon tape for now until i can get some new tuners


teflon being the slipperiest stuff on earth, let us know how that works out.
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Old 07-27-2015, 02:52 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ad_works
teflon being the slipperiest stuff on earth, let us know how that works out.
Teflon TAPE is also the stretchiest & bendiest stuff on the planet. This type tape being used to prevent leaking pipe joints. I use it on my vehicle oil drain plugs at oil change time.

I'm not predicting a sure fire cure, but rather hoping a few turns of the stuff might restore interference fit to the headstock. Hopefully our TS has a roll of the stuff around the house already, which would bring the risk/reward price factor ratio to nil.

Other than that, it should be pretty obvious that with a wood vs. metal confrontation, wood wears out first. So, the headstock holes are more likely enlarged, from shrinkage due to humidity, old age, or abrasion from the bushings. When you couple that with some excess side play in the spool shaft due to wear, you get bushings which pop out.

The point here is, even replacing the tuners with the same type press-in bushing variety, won't work. It needs tuners with screw in bushings, a system which eliminates any wear inn the headstock itself, as a factor.

Since it's not my 40 bucks, (or so), or for that matter yours being spent, it's hard to be adamant about the course of action to be taken.

In any event, if this is a hundred dollar guitar, and you have money saved for an upgrade, bu all means, glue the bushings in, keep it as a beater, and save the money toward the new guitar purchase.
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Old 07-30-2015, 10:42 PM   #14
skido13
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I have no problem investing money in a cheap guitar if it's playable. I have a very old (1963?)Silvertone F hole archtop with el-cheapo open gear tuners and posts with no bushings. The posts split the headstock sides right off from the string pressure, I fixed that. I'm going to get good closed gear tuners with bushings for it. Also going to make nut and two piece bridge without those metal adjustment nuts from antler. Should improve the sound somewhat.
As far as your bushings coming out, Electric Devil, sloppiness in the post/bushing fit is highly suspected, which would cause the post to lean eventually bringing the bushing up - replace the tuners completely. I use never seize on the posts before fitting through the bushings, it lubricates and fills any space against humidity.
If the headstock holes are still too big for the new bushings a good wood filler will work. You put the wood filler in then the bushings, clean any excess and let it cure before putting the posts through.
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Old 07-30-2015, 11:42 PM   #15
Captaincranky
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Quote:
Originally Posted by skido13
...[ ]...If the headstock holes are still too big for the new bushings a good wood filler will work. You put the wood filler in then the bushings, clean any excess and let it cure before putting the posts through.
Well, to fix the issue, (ostensibly once and for all), you need to buy tuners like these Gotohs: http://www.stewmac.com/Hardware_and...nd3_Tuners.html The"bushings" are actually bolts, (with holes in the center), which fasten the tuner body(s), and don't rely on any kind of interference fit from the headstock at all. All the headstock does, is form the center of the "sandwich".

I haven't even owned a guitar in the past 40 years, that had those sorry ass press in bushings on it...

Last edited by Captaincranky : 07-30-2015 at 11:57 PM.
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Old 07-31-2015, 11:01 PM   #16
skido13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Captaincranky

I haven't even owned a guitar in the past 40 years, that had those sorry ass press in bushings on it...

Sweet! That'll do the job alright. The method I mentioned will work if he wants to keep what he's got.

My Squire Strat has tuners built just like the Gotoh only they're labeled "Squire".
My Fender GDC100 SCE NAT has the same ones only they're labeled "Fender".
All the rest of my guitars are second hand (or much more) beaters or pulled out of the trash. Some of them were lucky enough to have closed tuners at all!
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