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Old 07-19-2010, 12:53 PM   #1
frankibo
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Arrow The Colossus EP, 24.09 min, post hardcore, progressive metal (GP5/4, Midi)

Basically I started writing and I just didn't stop, until I'd written a 24 minute long song.
I think that's too long to put on an album amongst other normal length (3-5 minutes) songs. Also despite the transitions this song isn't exactly 100% coherent and it contains just about as many genres as I can write for, so it'd be stupid as a single song.

So, in my great wisdom, I decided it can be like a one song EP, loads of tiny songs in one song if that makes sense.

Although the song is finished I'm sure I'll go back to it and add and edit things so it's not really completely finished.

EDIT: I've been going over this for quite a while and I've changed a few bits so thought I'd update it and hear any new feedback you guys might have for me. I think the main two genres it fits are progressive metal and post hardcore, hope you enjoy it!

Currently it has 16 sections broken up into 6 songs.


1) CREATION - 0.00 - 7.09
7.09 minutes
I - 0.00 - 7.09 - A rather long winded atmospheric post rock intro.
2) CORRUPTION - 7.10 - 12.12 5.02 minutes
II - 7.10 - 8.23 - A post-hardcore/metalcore build up and riff followed by a progressive/post-hardcore/metalcore breakdown.
III - 8.24 - 9.21 - A very catchy alt rock/ post-hardcore section with some cool synth.
IV - 9.22 - 10.25 - Groovy, atmospheric and dissonant riff, inspired by bands like Meshuggah and Periphery.
V - 10.26 - 12.12 - A rather long progressive metal/rock sort of section with lots of riffage, orchestrations; Protest the Hero inspired.
3) CONTEMPLATION & CONDEMNATION - 12.13 - 17.32 5.19 minutes
VI - 12.13 - 14.21 - A clean tapping part I wrote a while back that fitted nicely into this song. Everything builds up, then falls away before coming back with an epic BAM.
VII - 14.22 - 15.59 - A very atmospheric, laid back and synth based section with electronic drums and a small solo.
VIII - 16.00 - 16.17 - Quite a faced paced djent section, inspired by Periphery and Vildhjarta. Rather dissonant.
IX - 16.18 - 17.32 - Chord fades out and piano fades it. Strings flow over the top.
4) CHAOS & CONFUSION 17.33 - 18.57 1.24 minutes
X - 17.33 - 17.44 - And then a awkwardly placed tritone breakdown slaps you in the face out of nowhere.
XI - 17.45 - 18.20 - The breakdown fades away and another Protest the Hero inspired riff fades in.
XII - 18.21 - 18.57 - A steady bass drum beat leads into a rather catchy pop rock riff. Then all it gets a bit happy. There's also a small solo. Inspired by a Fightstar song although it doesn't show.
5) COLOSSUS - 18.58 - 20.51 1.53 minutes
XIII - 18.58 - 20.51 - Another piano section which builds up with a cello, drum toms, a violin, and a violin harmony, before going super epic on you. My favourite section of the song. Epic chords bridge the last section
6) COLLAPSE & CATHARSIS - 20.52 - 24.09 3.16 minutes
XIV - 20.52 - 21.33 - Djenty, groovy muted guitar riff. Meshuggah inspired.
XV - 21.34 - 22.17 - Ambidjent! Poly rhythmic this time though. 4/4 drums, 5/4 guitar riff and then a 12/4 clean part over the top. Very atmospheric, very heavy, my second favourite part of the song. Vildhjarta and Periphery influenced again.
XVI - 22.18 - 24.09 - Only the clean guitar and ambience is left. Some laid back drums come in, and synth bass part. The bass drops out, and then so do the drums. The clean guitars and ambience fade out.


Anyway, C4C!


I promise I'll give you a super detailed crit as I am asking a lot of you seeing as this song is rather long.
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Last edited by frankibo : 11-22-2010 at 05:06 PM.
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Old 07-19-2010, 01:36 PM   #2
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Wow.
That was quite incredible!
Extremely atmospheric, and I'm quite a big sucker for atmosphere.
Sometimes I get bored with 3minute songs people have shared on here and I end up skipping bits.. but not once did I feel like I wanted to change. it was dissonant, catchy (at times) and pretty bloody brutal.

However, sometimes the changes seemed abit.. well, euurghk kind of feeling, and some parts were abit short. Though, I think you've overall timed your sections to be the best they could, and I loved the catchy 'happy' bit, and your big chorus sounding parts.

That's 24 minutes of my life I wouldn't mind having again.
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Old 07-19-2010, 07:32 PM   #3
frankibo
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Thanks for giving me such a positive critique! I was worried people might think this was terrible so you've really brightened my day (night actually)!
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Old 07-20-2010, 08:04 PM   #4
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Wow, I really liked most of this!

"So, in my great wisdom, I decided it can be like a one song EP, loads of tiny songs in one song if that makes sense."

Ah, like Dream Theaters "Six Degrees of Inner Turbulence" ? And it's not too long, Symphony X made that clear with their "The Odyssey". )

Anyway...

I really like the Meshugga-ish "Groove much" and that whole clean/distorted tapping. You can tell it's inspired by PTH, which is great!"I am Colossus" actually kinda gave me chills. The Colossus is really epic. :p

I kinda feel like the outro may carry on for a little long time. You probably don't need the "Qué?" part either. ((:

Sometimes, it bursts into these "Epic Colaboration"-breakdowns, which I don't know if I love or hate. q:

I don't liek "Only a Bass?" to "And nothing". Neither do I like the "Orchestral Slap" thing. I feel you could something funky with "Mathematical Ride" instead.

I'd say I 'd give it 8,9/10. And sorry if I'm unclear, it's late. :p
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Old 07-21-2010, 06:06 AM   #5
frankibo
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Thanks for the crit.
I definitely agree that the outro is maybe too long, i was thinking of cutting it down and maybe removing the Que? part as well.
And I understand why you're unsure about the spontaneous breakdowns, I personally like the shock they bring when juxtaposed to a nice melodic piano piece or something. It's good to have a build up of tension and then a breakdown but I also quite like getting surprised.
Thanks again, anything you want me to crit?
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Old 07-21-2010, 07:00 AM   #6
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Yeah, I kind of understand the shock idea with it.

I'm working on a song at the moment, I'll get back to you.
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Old 07-21-2010, 05:28 PM   #7
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OMG! This is awesome, you really made a huge song there. I will crit this later (like in a week) but I'm just saying that there are fantastic parts ("I am colossus" especially). The only negative crits is most of the transitions could be really improve. When I listen to it, it seems - like you wrote - a big group of genre fighting/fitting with another. It has not yet the coherence of a song.




EDIT:
So let's do it. I will crit only the weak point (Don't worry I really like your song )


Nothing to change from 1-131.

- 132: this breakdown comes really badly. I suggest you use the bar 138 to make the transition 131 then bar 139 (remove 132-138). It sounds better. Maybe then you should repeat it because it's too short then ^^.

- Same thing for the big chord you use at bar 146-148. Remove them? It sounds a bit abrupt but flows better.

- Be careful 170 is really strange. Change this because it doesn't fit even if it's funny as hell. No solution here, try everything you can.

- Transition bar 202-203 is too sudden. I suggest some 4/4 here.

- Transition bar 218-219 doesn't fit. If I were you, i would remove the riff before and try to make another transition/create another part.

- The Orchestral Slap come too quickly. Why not develop "Mathematical ride" (harmonies with guitars). If you do this, I'm pretty sure it will flows well then.

- Transition 248-251 is bad. Really too simple. You didn't try long here.

- Transition named "Transition" isn't that bad but I would try another big chord.

- Again bars 364-366. Use those big chords with care, here it sounds like you did lacks creativity (which is wrong).

- for 388-389, I closed my eyes and listen to. And it sounds great. BUT you have to repeat this riff something like 4 times if you want to let it.

- 390 was clumsy.

- 406-407 was bad.

- 431 was close to succeed. Here it's just a detail, don't worry for this one.


-Then part XII which made my heart melt. Well done. Really. That's the kind of thing I crave for.


- To improve the next transition, I suggest you to repeat 504 twice more (let the chord sound) and remove the "How dare you ." part. I tried it sounds great.

- XIV is bad but I don't have advice this time.

- XVI is damn heavy but out of place. It's more a joke than a real ending. But keep this riff somewhere, it's really good


Then the parts I didn't like :
Breakdown (132-148)
Intro+ All in (203-218)

Everything else (!) was just great or awesome or well found.



To summary my crit, I would say you're a great music componist but you should care those transitions! If you succeed in doing this changes, I would definitely buy this EP.


Can I hear your crit for the re-working of this song? Thx
http://www.ultimate-guitar.com/foru...61#post24839161

Last edited by grooaarrhh : 07-28-2010 at 03:25 PM.
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Old 08-12-2010, 10:43 AM   #8
frankibo
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Thanks for the very detailed and helpful crit, I'm gonna focus on the sections you highlighted and try to improve them.
I'll get back to you with a crit asap, i'm rather busy at the moment though so it may have to a wait a week or so.
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Old 08-12-2010, 11:13 AM   #9
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Okay.. as I go along: I skipped until the main piano riff started, got bored. Sorry for bluntness there, that's more GP MIDI's fault than anything and the slides sound horrific (not your fault).

The motif that builds in with More Strings is gorgeous, reminds me of a piece from the soundtrack to a PS1 RPG called Alundra, look up the OST, might be your kinda thing There's something about the D minor chord in bar 106 (guitar 1) and its repeats that doesn't sit right with me, I don't know what, I can't put my finger on it.

The segue into II - Intro was.. a little disappointing. This turned very generic very quickly after the nice experimentation in that intro section. Some super generic palm muted riffs, not keen on these, generic third harmony, etc, doesn't live up to the rest. Nor does the beatdown'y thing that follows it. Timing's nice and off-kilter without being monotonous, but, I dunno. Boring melody to those low notes perhaps, or perhaps it needs something laid over it.

Chords at 149, nice, except the plain C major in 151. The others are weird chords, a D minor with a B flat, and the E flat minor 8th with a C (I think, ha). This almost felt like Barry White should be telling me he wants to do me over the top of it until those square waves come in.

That groove riff that came in just there? My God, I loved that. Out of nowhere, big sub-drop style thing, this is a nice groove. Little disjointed from what came before it but who cares?

186, the 17/16 bar, that open hat in the last two sixteenths.. replace it. Dunno what with, didn't like it, felt strange there since those are the extra two beats. Find a way to make it flow more.

Power chords in V - Intro, less keen. Another swift change of style. This section would rely on vocals, I feel. Mathematical ride? Lovely. Really, superb, don't change a thing there.

Orchestral slap, second time through it (229/230) switch it up somehow. Two identical repeats, by the second one you lost the wow factor of the first 9/8 into 8/8.

Teh tapping in DnB and just before's really nice, very stable. The E flat 6 add 9 (according to GP) at 271 is something I've used a lot of lately, really works well.

It's Big, and Loud, and Epic. You weren't lying, this is REALLY similar to the ending of the piece in my sig, with the repeated arpeggio with big stuff over it, I'd urge you to listen to that (and crit?), hopefully you'll like it as much as I like this

VII - Electro Drums, serves as a nice interlude, builds up into the solo very nicely, and the sixteenth note delay works perfectly. Back into the second djent'y groove using the same technique as the first time.. suddenness and the sub-drop kinda sound. Maybe that should be different this time, another way into it, particularly as it's much shorter than the last?

Oh god get rid of this deathcore beatdown with dissonance, please. It was only a couple bars -- appropriate? No, sorry :p not at all!

Next section is a ripoff from Protest The Hero's Wretch: -- okay, not a rip-off, but very similar

Riff, at 411 -- put a trancey synth over that. Would be sick, play up the dance-floor aspect of it before the rest of the band comes in.

471, yay, more bigness. Those bars from 487 to 494 when absolutely everything is in.. yay, just yay. Then the stupid beatdown after it ruined it. Lose that. It's silly.

From 542 on to the end, works really well again, but please resist the urge and get rid of the little two bars of bree-bree at the end? Do it for me?

So there you go.. big crit. I have an around 10-minute piece similar in many ways to this online, it's in my sig. I'd really appreciate some thoughts on that since you obviously know what you're doing here
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Old 08-12-2010, 04:07 PM   #10
frankibo
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Thanks for the crit, the more criticisms i get the better, that way I can improve this.
I PROMISE I will get back to you with a crit but it won't be until the end of the month, I'm rather busy these next few weeks.


And you're right that riff did begin as an almost blatant rip off of wretch, but i thought it became it's own thing with the strings.
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Last edited by frankibo : 08-12-2010 at 04:09 PM.
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Old 08-12-2010, 04:24 PM   #11
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It moved far enough away, rip-off was a little strong It's a nice section in a nice piece -- any plans to track it?
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Old 08-12-2010, 04:28 PM   #12
frankibo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LessThanLuke
It moved far enough away, rip-off was a little strong It's a nice section in a nice piece -- any plans to track it?


I was planning to record it, I got the drum track ready using EZ drummer but I can't play the piano parts so huge parts of the song would be missing. If i get time I'll ask a friend if he fancies learning the parts but otherwise it's a non-starter unfortunately.
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Old 08-12-2010, 04:58 PM   #13
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Just export the Guitar Pro file as MIDI then import the piano into a VI in whatever recording software you're using
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Old 09-01-2010, 05:53 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LessThanLuke
Just export the Guitar Pro file as MIDI then import the piano into a VI in whatever recording software you're using


After exploring my options I think this is what I'll do and at some point I'm gonna begin the mammoth task of recording this.
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Old 10-14-2010, 05:07 PM   #15
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Haunting to say the least.

I will give a full crit once I finish listening to the rest. In one sitting.
As I believe that is how this piece should be digested.

*SPOT RESERVED FOR CRIT*
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Old 11-22-2010, 05:08 PM   #16
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Updated the song, any chance of getting that crit huevos?
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Old 06-23-2011, 12:31 PM   #17
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The clean tapping part is geneous, at first I thought it would be impossible to play but when I tried it out it was fairly simple. very original

Holy shit, "Happy Times" (bar 419) is incredible, that section is an epic win
but honestly that solo was a nice touch and needs to be extended, make it lie 16 bars instead of four please, that section needs to last longer

Bar 502 in the "segue" section should go like this in my opinion... (link at bottom)

"Overgroove" was great as well, you really know how to build music (also 520 was a good touch, reminded me of periphery a little)

Great song, one that would be surely remembered but I personally don't think the intro should be 7 min long, it built up well but its one of those things that I would fast foward through half the time if I were to listen to it on my Ipod (like I do on Swim to the Moon and Holy Diver) Not that its bad, but I mean its a third of the song and Im pretty impatient

One more thing, not a crit but a compliment, you are good at using obscure time signitures, that dont sound forced or anything
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Old 12-25-2011, 09:33 PM   #18
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hey man! thanks for your critique (kind of?) on my songs lol, thought the idea of a 20 minute ep is extremely cool so i decided to listen to the whole thing

bar 0-149 - not much to say about those two songs, i usually dont really dig atmospheric type songs, but i know thats just me. i also dont really like corruption either (not a huge fan of pedal tone riffs D=)

bar 149-170 - this is where the song really started capturing my attention, the arpeggios in the 'off beat' section fit so well, and it's so sick when the synth track comes in it sounds kind of like pokemon/megaman almost (thats a compliment)

bar 171-202 - man this part is so groovy, you can defs hear the meshuggah influence at this part and its ****ing awesome im such a sucker for riffs like these

bar 202-218 - didnt really like this part, only because i felt the drums didnt really fit the riff

bar 219-226 - only thing going through my mind listenign to this was "how the hell did he get guitar pro to sound like that" and protest the hero

bar 227-239 - ****ing yes, it feels as if mike patton just took over this whole section, i hear so much bungle in this, its like a mix of quote unquote and carousle

bar 240-248 - this part is awesome too, sounds like veil of maya mixed with mr bungle to me lol

bar 251-290 - lol periphery

bar 291-310 - omg i love those huge chords (reminds me of racecar by periphery mixed with the sweeping part of sequioa throne by protest the hero) this part is beautiful, im enjoying it so much

bar 310-351- you're going to hate me for saying this, but it kind of sounds like an attack attack! interlude type thing, until the clean guitars come in then its back to periphery lol (are you jake bowen!?!). although i didnt particulary enjoy the solo it fits the mood 100%, you completely accomplished the mood you were trying to set through that part of the song

bar 355-364 - another extremely groove influenced riff LOVE IT the ambient guitars in the background add to it so much

bar 388-390 - BRUUUUUTALLL reminds me of for today mixed with helia the pianos awesome

bar 391-407 - as far as math prog is concerned, you completely nailed it another excellent riff

bar 411 - too happy for my liking D= sounds like a day to remember mixed with dragonforce.. two bands im not too fond of

bar 413 - the piano at this parts really good, i enjoy the tom rolls (i think thats what theyre called anyway) as well, the violin was cool as well. reminded me of tales of symphonia lol

bar 471-495 - i love this huge riff with the piano, reminds me of brompton cocktail by avenged sevenfold which is one my favourite songs ever

bar 495 - nice chords

bar 503-527 - reminds me of informal gluttony by between the buried and me, im not sure why though cant really put my finger on it

bar 528 - so far this riffs sounded the most like periphery, only because of the drums, you emulated matt halperns style perfectly lol

bar 539-547 - neutral about this riff, the clean guitar doesnt really do anything for me




all in all epic song/songs lol so many great highlights and alot of the stuff fits together suprisingly well. im so glad you commented on my thread haha or else i probably wouldve never listened to this sick song.
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Old 01-29-2012, 03:57 PM   #19
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Epic song, record asap, i dont have much to say about it though, bars 407 to 502 was my favorite part.
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Old 07-18-2012, 01:57 PM   #20
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I said I'd C4C, so this might take a little while.





So honestly, I apologize for lack of critique. I'm speechless. That was literally a Colossus of a track. It was seamless, violent, soothing. Anything I could offer to change has already been mentioned. You really should get this recorded.
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