WildthingJR

Not entirely true, there are very strict rules for non-EU immigrants. I know a Philippine woman who had to pass a test on Dutch culture and language (in her own country) first and she had to prove that she would be able to get a decent income here. The ensuing bureaucratic nonsense took several months, too

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Captain Panda

I'll just leave this here.

the bartender

I was not really being serious . There is a lot of bullshit going on about immigration in our country.

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WildthingJR

Haha okay, internet and sarcasm don't really mix I guess but I know, I've been doing a bit of research on this matter for a university project.. quite interesting results, too.

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Wat.

the bartender

nice, what do you study? Even though I study Biology, I have a general interest in anything related to society or politics .

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You who build these altars now

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frankv

Epic album.


You don't really believe all those Wilders godwins, do you? The irony is that it could only happen if the people he calls the elite keep on thinking that he is.

I do find some of his methods low, though. Making an enemy out of the afore mentioned elite for example. Damn populists...

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WildthingJR

I'm doing a German Language&Culture major with minors in Linguistics, English Language&Culture and History (for which I did the immigration project) . Next year I'll probably get a master's degree in Linguistics, but my fields of interest definitely cover a wide range - which more people should consider doing, really. Most people I know are ranting about.. well, everything, without properly thinking first

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Anchr

The painful thing is that he's right: non-western immigrants are a majority in criminal statistics... But the way he's trying to solve it (shut the borders and all that are already in: GTFO) is totally wrong and just increases the problem. And nobody that realizes that sadly
And the thing that "they're also there to improve the caretaking for the elders"; it's just bollocks to let the mindless sheep look the other way than the fascist road they're on...

the bartender

"There are lies... there are blatant lies.. and then there are statistics."

Not saying that I don't believe these statistics, but there are a lot of factors that aren't taken into account (cultural differences, acceptance in society, etc.). the conclusion that Wilders draws that 'higher percentage of criminality' = 'naturally more criminal' = 'scum' is as far from the truth as it can possibly be.



Sounds cool . Yea I definitely agree that everyone should try to widen their view... though it seems our current govt. wants to punish us for doing so .

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You who build these altars now

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You must not do it anymore

Anchr

The only thing I agree with on this subject is the recognition of a problem and where a (big) part of the problem lies.

I'm not saying all non-western immigrants or Muslims for that part are all bad, as there are rotten apples in every single basket, no matter where they come from. But instead of picking only the rotten ones out Wilders wants to throw away the entire basket, which is plain wrong and we all know where it eventually will go as we've been there before sadly.

Gammas1

It's not a religious thing, it's about layers of society. My dad grew up in a part of Rotterdam that is now famous for trouble with immigrants. When he lived there, they had the same problems (theft,violence, etc.), but the kids that caused it had Dutch parents. Those kids grew up, moved on and now have better jobs than their parents did, and we invited foreigners over to fill the spaces they left. Wilders is just scaring people imo.

/maatschappijleer

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the bartender

Amen.

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You who build these altars now

To sacrifice these children

You must not do it anymore

WildthingJR

Eh, depends what kind of crimes. You might wanna check www.cbs.nl: for violence and sexual abuse (IIRC), there is a higher percentage of 'pure' Dutch than (non-western) immigrants, and even in crime fields where the percentage of immigrants is higher, this is still no significantly higher number.

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vagelier

The compelling thing to me is that, whether or not there is a higher criminality rate amongst Muslims, due to the Dutch low birth rate, the general working people are getting notably older - "greying". Basically we need immigrants right now for economical purposes, so we can reduce this greying. Shutting the borders would prove to be a very rash act.
Also, I believe that these cultural differences will sort themselves out. In a generation or two, everyone will have blended in.

Gammas1

^and we'll have our wery own 'melting pot'

Next we'll have to invent the Dutch dream...

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the bartender

we already have that, it's called "cheese, pot and whores" .

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You who build these altars now

To sacrifice these children

You must not do it anymore

vagelier

You forgot ice-skating

Gammas1

No he didn't

On a related note, optimists expect an 11-city-tour (how's that for a translation?) before the end of 2010

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I am Sir Gammas of the Gentleman Thread. Tally ho!

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I Like Planes

The_Casinator

Just like last year. Goddamn optimists, always ruining my hope for a koek-en-zopie.