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Old 01-20-2005, 06:39 PM   #61
~Rock~Guitarist
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I'd just like to say this is a sweet thread. I have a question of my own now, im thinking about making an extension cabinet for my amp, but i was wondering - how hard would it be to make a leslie - type cabinet. In case you dont know, but you probably do, in a leslie cabinet the speakers rotate, giving a sort of swerly-type sound. So back to the question, how hard would it be for someone like me who is new to amp making but wants to build one of these?
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Old 01-20-2005, 08:01 PM   #62
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Leslie

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Originally posted by ~Rock~Guitarist
I'd just like to say this is a sweet thread. I have a question of my own now, im thinking about making an extension cabinet for my amp, but i was wondering - how hard would it be to make a leslie - type cabinet. In case you dont know, but you probably do, in a leslie cabinet the speakers rotate, giving a sort of swerly-type sound. So back to the question, how hard would it be for someone like me who is new to amp making but wants to build one of these?


The Leslie cabs speakers rotated a varying speeds that's where the unique sound came from, but on some multi effects units there is a Leslie simulation I believe that the 'Alesis Quadraverb' had such an effect in its presets.
To build one yourself would be pretty nigh on impossible, but, if you live in the UK there are hundreds sittng unused, on stages, in 'Working Mens Clubs' (for those of you in the colonies someone else can explain what these establishments are) and I do know for a fact that many band have manged to talk some of these places into selling them.

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Old 01-20-2005, 08:19 PM   #63
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On Leslie - check Ebay.

You probably won't be able to find exactly the right parts to build a true leslie yourself, but doing something similar to that has always been a dream of mine, but..

I'm married.

I love her to death, but I doubt she would appreciate even more big ass speakers in our humble abode.
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Old 01-20-2005, 09:29 PM   #64
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Thanks. I searchd ebay and found quite a few parts for them, including several motors, rotary horns, and speakers from actual leslie cabinets. do you think i would be able to do it?

edit: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dl...5744665390&rd=1 these speakers are from a hammond organ, could i make a guitar cabinet with them?

im seriously starting to consider this project... i just dont want to start on it and then halfway through i realize i have to spend $500 on special extra parts or to see an expert on it.
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Old 01-21-2005, 03:16 PM   #65
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Originally posted by ~Rock~Guitarist
Thanks. I searchd ebay and found quite a few parts for them, including several motors, rotary horns, and speakers from actual leslie cabinets. do you think i would be able to do it?
edit: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dl...5744665390&rd=1 these speakers are from a hammond organ, could i make a guitar cabinet with them?

im seriously starting to consider this project... i just dont want to start on it and then halfway through i realize i have to spend $500 on special extra parts or to see an expert on it.

Looking at those speakers wouldn't encourage me to buy them, and looking at the dust cover I would say that the voice coil would be 1" max and as they appear to be well used they will have taken some hammer from the bass pedals.
They don't even look to be decent speakers either so you would be better off with a pair of 'Eminence 12" 200 watt GP speakers.
What you must remember is that the 'Leslie' cab was a complex piece of gear, the variable speed motor must have had some kind of controle system, maybe you could get hold of a 'Leslie' manual before you start spending your money.
Have you thought about buying a complete 'Leslie' cab and then using the parts to build smaller separate units?, but I would try and get hold of a manual first, I'm am not trying to put you off I'm just trying to point you in the right direction
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Old 01-23-2005, 10:03 PM   #66
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Well thanks. I'm going to do my best to find a manual but I'm probably just going to build a regular 212 extension cabinet for my Fender Hot Rod Deville.

as far as the hot rod deville goes - if i plug a cabinet into the extension speaker jack will it also play out of the deville or will it just work like a head in a half stack and not make any noise?

also, im looking for a very vintage bluesy-rock tone so im looking at the celestion vintage 30. would this be a good choice? thanks.
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Old 01-29-2005, 10:10 PM   #67
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Old 02-23-2005, 06:34 AM   #68
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^^ Of course.

The photo will take a bit of time, though, as I'm working with a disposable camera and a scanner. Usually turns out better than digi anyway, though.


wow. amasing u guys know your ****! I build myself an 8 watt amp, but not just the cab. Do any of these things apply?
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Old 02-23-2005, 11:11 AM   #69
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wow. amasing u guys know your ****! I build myself an 8 watt amp, but not just the cab. Do any of these things apply?
For eight watts, you really don't need to worry about anything. Just stick it in a box and go. The reason for all the science is because (generally) you're putting out large amounts of bass frequencies, which are difficult.

For a small project, there's not a whole lot you can do to improve upon the standard practice amp design, although the sky is the limit as far as circuit design.
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Old 03-11-2005, 10:32 PM   #70
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im back again, and ive decided im going to make an extension cabinet for my fender hot rod deville. im gonna put in 2 12 inch vintage celestion 30 speakers in, and ive got two questions.

- as far as ohms go, my amp says the external speaker output should be used with 8 ohms, so should i buy two 8 ohm vintage celestions?
- also, in the product descriptions it says my amp is 60 watts, but on the specifications on the back of the amp it says "180W" will this be too much for the vintage celestions because they say they handle 60w.
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Old 03-14-2005, 03:12 PM   #71
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I have a Peavey Basic 112 with an internal 8 ohm 12" speaker and an external speaker jack for an 8 Ohm speaker. I need the extra 25 watts that I could get by having 4 ohms of speakers hooked up, but this cabinet building is looking to be complicated for bass, and out of my budget. Would it be possible to just replace the internal speaker with a 4 Ohm speaker so i could get 75 watts instead of 50?
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Old 03-14-2005, 03:23 PM   #72
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Originally posted by rockbassguitar
I have a Peavey Basic 112 with an internal 8 ohm 12" speaker and an external speaker jack for an 8 Ohm speaker. I need the extra 25 watts that I could get by having 4 ohms of speakers hooked up, but this cabinet building is looking to be complicated for bass, and out of my budget. Would it be possible to just replace the internal speaker with a 4 Ohm speaker so i could get 75 watts instead of 50?


If you cut the impedence in half (the ohms) the wattage should double.

Doing so, you run the risk of frying your amp. Plus, you might clip a gain stage, which could fry your speaker as well.

If you have no money and need more bass juice, stick the cabinet in a corner with concrete walls. You can get some acoustic gain this way.

And to Rock Guitarist: don't worry so much about what speakers will handle. Impedence (ohms) is the important thing. Never mess with ohms unless you know absolutely what you're doing.

If you overdo it on wattage, you will hear it before anything bad happens. When they start farting (you'll know what I mean) you probably have 10-15 minutes to turn it down before your speakers are fried. If you hook up low ohm speakers to a high ohm amp, you'll get a sudden death...followed by a mysterious hot smell, like burnt toast.
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Old 03-16-2005, 05:57 PM   #73
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Originally posted by Bubonic Chronic


If you cut the impedence in half (the ohms) the wattage should double.

Doing so, you run the risk of frying your amp. Plus, you might clip a gain stage, which could fry your speaker as well.

If you have no money and need more bass juice, stick the cabinet in a corner with concrete walls. You can get some acoustic gain this way.

And to Rock Guitarist: don't worry so much about what speakers will handle. Impedence (ohms) is the important thing. Never mess with ohms unless you know absolutely what you're doing.

If you overdo it on wattage, you will hear it before anything bad happens. When they start farting (you'll know what I mean) you probably have 10-15 minutes to turn it down before your speakers are fried. If you hook up low ohm speakers to a high ohm amp, you'll get a sudden death...followed by a mysterious hot smell, like burnt toast.

No, the amp has an external speaker jack, and it will take 4 Ohms impedance. It has an 8 Ohm internal speaker, and it can take an 8 Ohm extentsion. I was just going to put one 4 Ohm speaker inside of it instead of building an extra cab for another 8 Ohm.
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Old 03-16-2005, 06:01 PM   #74
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If you did that, I'd wire a plug to the leads and put it into 4 ohm speaker out, just to make sure ... and make sure that plugging in an extension speaker overrides the original speaker, or you may have a problem
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Old 03-20-2005, 12:29 PM   #75
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And to Rock Guitarist: don't worry so much about what speakers will handle. Impedence (ohms) is the important thing. Never mess with ohms unless you know absolutely what you're doing.

If you overdo it on wattage, you will hear it before anything bad happens. When they start farting (you'll know what I mean) you probably have 10-15 minutes to turn it down before your speakers are fried. If you hook up low ohm speakers to a high ohm amp, you'll get a sudden death...followed by a mysterious hot smell, like burnt toast.


thanks. in your examples you showed how to wire 2 4 ohm speakers to make an 8 ohm cabinet... how would you wire 2 8 ohm speakers to make an 8 ohm cabinet, because the external speaker jack on my amp says to go to an 8ohm cabinet, and i cannot find the kind of speakers i want in 4ohms.
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Old 03-21-2005, 03:15 PM   #76
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^^ Hmm, that's tough. If you had four 8-ohm speakers, you could do a series-parallell thing and get a single 8-ohm system, but with two 8's you're pretty much stuck with a 16-ohm or a 4-ohm system, depending on if you wire them in series or in parallell.

16-ohm would be the safest:

+____+(Speaker)-_____+(Speaker)-____-

That's just like lining up batteries in a flashlight.

Trouble is, 16-ohm would be awful quiet.

You did say you have an 8-ohm speaker in it already, though, right? And it can drive an additional 8-ohm speaker?

If that's the case, you can just build the cab with two 8-ohm inputs. Then convert the output to the internal speaker into a male 1/4" jack. If you do that, you'll have to solder new lead wires directly from the circuit board. I'd go with 10-guage or fatter wire.

As for the external speaker output, you could either plug a regular guitar cable into that and then into the other input of your cabinet or conver that to a male 1/4" as well. That's not the usual way of doing things at the factory, but there's no reason why you can't do it that way. In fact, eliminating a female/male connection will strengthen your signal and give you better tone. The only drawback is physical stress that loose wires might place on the circuit board, but there is a quick fix for this, too.

Pull the wires to the side of the amp's chassy, leaving a bit of slack. Now take an industrial staple gun (not your mother's Swingline!) and put a big-ass staple into the chassy to hold the loose wires in place. Then if you happen to step on the wires and lift the cabinet you will rip the staple out of the chassy, but your circuit board should be ok.

I don't know what you call that, technically, but it's generally a good idea to relocate your physical stress point away from fragile circuitry. Connect those wires (physically) to some wood, and your circuitry will last a lot longer.
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Old 04-02-2005, 12:48 AM   #77
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Mr. Bubonic Chronic, what are the dimensions for the old school marshall cabs? the really long ones that looked like bass cabinets.
do those dimensions create "modes"?? and how do you cover cabinets, in general?
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Old 04-06-2005, 05:54 PM   #78
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I'll post the questions I have been having.

Q: Would someone who builds subwoofer cabinets be qualified for making guitar cabinets?

A: Not a bad question.

Guitar cabs are a whole lot more simple to build than subwoofer cabinets. It's different technology. I'm assuming he builds subs for automotive applications?

I don't touch that stuff, lol.


Q: What kind of speakers should I choose. Also, what things should I buy to make the cab?

A: Anyway, you pretty much have to choose among the major speaker manufacturers that make guitar speakers:

Peavey and Celestion come immediately to mind. To me, it is somewhat like Ford/Chevy - it depends on who you ask. I use Peavey myself. They are rugged.

Crate builds some, but they're not that great.

There is also Laney, which Opeth uses, and a ton of British bands.

But guitar speakers generally come in 10", 12" and 15". I don't know who makes a 14".

For gigging, a 2X12" should be fine, assuming your venues provide monitors. Realistically, you don't even need a cab at all these days if you're gigging at clubs with a good sound system.

4X12 is only 3 dB louder than 2X12", that's more for the vintage look than anything.

For practical purposes, 2X12" should do you fine.

Celestion is the Marshall sound, Peavey is the 5150, Van Halen sound, Laney is the AC/DC, Motorhead sound (British)...I'm really not too sure about that, but what else would you expect the brit bands to use? lol

Wood, cones and wires is all you'll need. You also need a poweramp.

Just tune the port for something below 160 Hz and you should be ok (try 100, that's a nice, square number for your calculations, that'll make it easy.)

Of course you don't have to port, you can always just bust a hole in the back. Guitar doesn't have the same problem with the cancellation that bass has. Bass is truly an art.

The best way to go is to just buy a guitar head. If you're a soloist, the 5150 (Peavey) has a great sound, but lacks a bit if you're into the hardcore metal. Marshall is great for classic rock/80's metal. Mesa/Boogie is like the lamborghini of amps. They sound like a woman's tits in your mouth covered in strawberry syrup, but then they also cost at least $1500 new, so there you go. Marshall is probably more versatile.

2X12" Celestion cab would probably be the best for general applications. I went with Peavey because I did a hybrid job (1X15" and 2X10"). Celestion may or may not make 15"s, but I know that Peavey's Black Widow is a good speaker, that's my 15". I'm also not too familiar with Celestion's availability of 10"s, so again I went with Peavey as they offer a good product, the Scorpion in that size.

Celestions, though, are standard in Marshall cabs and in tons of other manufacturers' amps, too. They are great. Each will cost you about $100, and you want to wire them with at least 8 gauge wire, if not thicker. The thicker the better. Don't let anyone tell you that Monster cable (cryogenically treated and special alloys and junk) is better, it's a waste of money. Sure, maybe it's a bit better, but for the extra cash, just go down a gauge or two - lower gauge is thicker. You'll get farther with 5 gauge cheap wire from a hardware store than with 12 gauge Monster. It's just a scientific fact.

They will do perfectly. The reason I went with Peavey is they offered me more flexibility as far as speaker diameters.

I could use a 15" and 2 10"s that way.

If you're going with 12"s, then Celestions are your best option by far.

The thing to remember is you want to oversize your amp (your head) rather than your speakers. Here's the reasoning:

If you put a 50W head on 100W speakers, the speakers are going to "ask" for 100W. Since the amp can't produce that wattage, it will "clip", or send out a straight voltage with no frequency, like hooking up a car battery to your speakers, basically. A speaker coil (the coil of wire that surrounds the magnet) then becomes a highly effective toaster.

A very expensive toaster at that.

So you're much better off hooking up a 300W amp to a 100W speaker cabinet because the amp is not going to clip, and the speakers are not going to become a toaster. Instead, you'll be forcing the speakers to the limits of their design. Like a car or any other machine, they can handle a little bit of punishment. The thing is, though, you probably won't turn the amp up all the way, and your speakers will warn you that they are reaching their limits by "farting," and you will know when this happens. It's an ugly thing, but it's not doing permanent damage (probably.)

When you hear your cones farting, turn it down. You still have speakers!



To recap:

Small amp + Big speakers = TOAST!

Big amp + Smaller speakers = you'll get a warning, use your noggin and turn it down

A power amp is called a head. Good ones cost between $800 and $1500 new, but you can often find used ones as low as $150 or $200. It all depends on age, condition and what you want.

There are tube amps and solid state amps. Tube are generally considered to be better, but solid state technology is getting better and better. The tubes "flavor" your sound.

Some good heads:

Marshall
Peavey
Laney
Fender

I would go to a guitar store (such as Guitar Center) and try some out. Get a nice guitar off the wall and plug into a variety of amps. Try out all four of those above if you can. See what you like best.

Then go home and look on Ebay, or even look in the "Musician Ads" here at UG.

Fender stuff is generally consistent and all sounds good. It is definitely blues or classic rock sounding, though. Marshall is very hard rock/metal sounding. Great if you're into that heavier stuff.
Laney, like Marshall, is excellent for heavier stuff, but different. It's like vanilla or chocolate,which is better? It's up to you.

Peavey makes some crappy heads. I wouldn't waste my time unless it is comparable to a 5150.

You can also rent, too. Look into that. It would be $20 a month or so, and you'll build your credit. I rented to own literally thousands of dollars in equipment and my credit is great now for a guy my age. I could buy a house if I wanted (and will soon.) You just have to be serious about making those payments for 2 years or so...if you want a top-notch amp that will last a lifetime.

As for the one speaker idea, that will work fine. I would recommend an 8-Ohm speaker. That is going to be the safest way to go and will work fine. There are 4-Ohm and 2-Ohm models, but that's for when you are more experienced and know you won't fry your gear. At this point, 8-Ohm will be a perfect fit.

If you wanted to double that speaker up, just wire it parallel with another 8-ohm job (I explained in the thread) and it will be a 4-Ohm pair. You're still safe with that. Just make sure to flip the switch on your head to 4 instead of 8 ohms.



Bubonic Chronic, You've been a huge help!

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Old 04-07-2005, 08:52 AM   #79
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Mr. Bubonic Chronic, what are the dimensions for the old school marshall cabs? the really long ones that looked like bass cabinets.
do those dimensions create "modes"?? and how do you cover cabinets, in general?
Hmm...I'm not sure of the dimensions.

You can cover cabs in anything you want, but I recommend something cheap as you'll probably spill beer on it at least once.
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Old 04-07-2005, 06:52 PM   #80
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If i were to compare two guitar speakers that had almost the same specs, but made from 2 different companies, could they still sound totally different?

Also, its possible to mix two different 12" speakers in a 2X12 cab to give a unique sound? thanks

lastly, for what was talked about trying to get the speaker rating close to what your amp is, how close do you have to be, is 60 close enough to 50, also, should i be trying to match the speakers RMS to my amp, or the max handling? thanks again
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