Go Back   UG Community @ Ultimate-Guitar.Com > Misc > Ultimate Guitar Feedback > Site Suggestions
User Name  
Password
Search:

Reply
Old 03-10-2011, 10:09 AM   #1
eosteric
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2009
Blocked tabs

I was wondering, why does this website comply with MPA/NMPA's ludicrous notion that guitar tabs, in essence describing how to play a song, is copyright infringement?

You do realize that they don't actually make the law? Just because they say it is copyright infringement, does not mean it is. They have to take that to the court and get a verdict and pass a law.

This website of all, should have more integrity and not bow down to these crooks.
eosteric is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-11-2011, 11:35 PM   #2
Garci
The Clairvoyant
 
Garci's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Germany
This site pays a bunch of fees just so they can keep their tabs online. In case you didn't notice, this is not some indie site who will post a handful of tabs to "have more integrity". We're talking about a website turning 13 years old, with a massive user base and hundreds of thousands of tabs.

The website doesn't think that guitar tabs are copyright infringement. If they did, you wouldn't be able to have a single tab on the site. There are a few tabs which are blocked - Dethklok comes to mind, which bothered me as well, but they did post a formal complaint to have their tabs taken down from the site.

So this is a page which plays by the rules. Which, massive as it is, would be stupid if it didn't. It wouldn't survive past the first week of cutting ties with legality. And no user, despite theoretically being able to save every tab, would be hard pressed to upload them again to a site which can handle the bandwidth that UG does.

So that's the price. You get an incredible bunch of tabs, but some of them are blocked. Big fucking deal. I'd say this site has an amazing amount of integrity being able to provide tabs whereas others have just ceased to exist, playing its cards well. That's pretty much all there is to it.

__________________
Look!

Learn how to spell, grammar is your friend

Member #11 of the Les Paul owners club, pm Waterboy799 to join.

Blues player of the Laney Cult
Garci is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-12-2011, 05:04 AM   #3
eosteric
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2009
"It wouldn't survive past the first week of cutting ties with legality."

Uhm, Piratebay is still up and they're hosting a lot more than tabs.

UG are just pussies.
eosteric is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-12-2011, 10:31 AM   #4
Garci
The Clairvoyant
 
Garci's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Germany
You do mean outside of paying over 3 million euros in fines and shutting down their tracker, don't you? Besides, no one is forcing you to get your tabs from this site full of "pussies", as you name us. You're more than free to go ahead and get your tabs in that lovely indie site of yours which has much more tabs than this and "sticks it up to the man".

Oh wait, sorry, such a site doesn't exist. My bad.

Really, you aren't paying a single cent to access this site. And you're actually complaining that the people running this site are paying so that they can keep the site up. For free. Available 24/7. On a scale that other tab websites don't even dream of. That's what you call being a pussy?
__________________
Look!

Learn how to spell, grammar is your friend

Member #11 of the Les Paul owners club, pm Waterboy799 to join.

Blues player of the Laney Cult
Garci is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-12-2011, 11:27 AM   #5
Lemoninfluence
Masculist
 
Lemoninfluence's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Liverpool, England
tabs can count as an adaptation of a work and thus can be counted as copyright infringement in many jurisdictions.

UG will have consulted a lawyer before taking these actions and any lawyer worth their salt will have told them that they're likely to be held liable for copyright infringement if they don't comply.

So it's not a case of the MPA or whoever thinking they can make the law, it's more a case of the law is pretty shit and the website would have to comply if it wants to continue existing. Especially as, as part of the ToS, the applicable law is US law (specifically Californian jurisdiction).
__________________
Rhythm in Jump. Dancing Close to You.

Quote:
Originally Posted by element4433
Yeah. people, like Lemoninfluence, are hypocrites and should have all their opinions invalidated from here on out.
Lemoninfluence is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-12-2011, 11:28 AM   #6
IanC89
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
I am quite disappointed by this though.

Last week, I could access tabs for David Bowie, and now I cannot.

I have been using U-G for countless years (but getting on for at least 8).

One reason U-G has a large user base is precisely because of the amount of tabs they handle, but if access to them is going to become limited, it is not going to promote the site.

Is there somewhere with some sort of official notice about which tabs are blocked, the reason behind why etc? This is the first time I have come across it and I have no idea how long it has been occurring, but as I said, for David Bowie, it has to have happen in the past week or so.
IanC89 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-12-2011, 02:07 PM   #7
Zebadee
UG's Bouncing Enthusiast
 
Zebadee's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
I'm finding a lot of the blocked tabs on other sites.. They manage ok, UG has had its day methinks.
__________________
@dbostwick
Zebadee is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-12-2011, 02:22 PM   #8
Zebadee
UG's Bouncing Enthusiast
 
Zebadee's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Actually that been said blaming UG is not the right thing to do.. They afterall have to comply with certain legal criteria.. The blame has to land on music publishers here.. Do the users of UG use these tablatures for financial gain? Do they spend hours writing tabs in order to 'steal' music? Or do they, like me, simply want to learn and play some of their favourite tunes by their favourite artists? Whichever way you look at it it is the record industry been petty and shitting on their core fanbase from a great height.. I have to wonder if the musicians involved, the songwriters, would actually mind their songs been placed on a site like UG, specially when it aids people actually learning the guitar and therefore is good for the future of music itself....
__________________
@dbostwick
Zebadee is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-12-2011, 02:55 PM   #9
imfsimon
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Hi..
Take this for example
http://tabs.ultimate-guitar.com/e/e...tonight_crd.htm
it's Eric Clapton's song, wonderful tonight.. and I get this message..
This tablature contains content from a third party publisher and has
been blocked by the Music Publishers Association in your country.

Would like to inform those unaware that:
1. this isn't a tablature, it's the chords
2. under the current law (no matter which country) chord progressions cannot be copyrighted!!! (its only logical as there are at least 100 other songs with the same chords.. that would be like copyrighting the ABC and filing lawsuits against everyone who uses them in typing)
3. the lyrics under the chords might be subject to copyright, but as long as the author is credited for it they can be freely posted.

Hope this will be taken in consideration next time anyone chooses to block chords...
Cheers
imfsimon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-12-2011, 03:08 PM   #10
Lemoninfluence
Masculist
 
Lemoninfluence's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Liverpool, England
Quote:
Originally Posted by imfsimon
3. the lyrics under the chords might be subject to copyright, but as long as the author is credited for it they can be freely posted.

not really.

Whilst the end user may be using the infringing material in a way that's outlined in fair usage provisions, UG is hosting them on a commercial basis meaning that the hosting itself is an infringement.
__________________
Rhythm in Jump. Dancing Close to You.

Quote:
Originally Posted by element4433
Yeah. people, like Lemoninfluence, are hypocrites and should have all their opinions invalidated from here on out.
Lemoninfluence is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-12-2011, 04:09 PM   #11
imfsimon
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lemoninfluence
not really.

Whilst the end user may be using the infringing material in a way that's outlined in fair usage provisions, UG is hosting them on a commercial basis meaning that the hosting itself is an infringement.


Why wouldn't this qualify for fair use?.. Imo it goes under teaching no?.. I wouldn't see why anyone would check for tabs / chords who doesn't want to learn how to play them..
and isn't UG a free website?.. they do have ads to cover their costs but user registration and use is free, they aren't actually selling the tabs.
I agree that the fair use scenario isn't THAT obvious and it's prolly better to get permission but anyway like I said it's only the lyrics..

Anyway doesn't it make you mad that music publishers want to make money even from stuff like this?.. :P the law is kinda crappy in some ways indeed...
It's annoying enough that my youtube cover vids get flagged :P now even chords..

Cheers
imfsimon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-12-2011, 04:36 PM   #12
Lemoninfluence
Masculist
 
Lemoninfluence's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Liverpool, England
Quote:
Originally Posted by imfsimon
Why wouldn't this qualify for fair use?.. Imo it goes under teaching no?.. I wouldn't see why anyone would check for tabs / chords who doesn't want to learn how to play them..
and isn't UG a free website?.. they do have ads to cover their costs but user registration and use is free, they aren't actually selling the tabs.
I agree that the fair use scenario isn't THAT obvious and it's prolly better to get permission but anyway like I said it's only the lyrics..


as I said, the end user is using the tabs for education but UG is using them for a commercial purpose. The fact that the revenue doesn't come directly from the tabs is irrelevant.

And it's not that the chords are copyrighted, it's the music that's copyrighted and the chords are an adaptation of that music. Although the alphabet cannot be copyrighted individually, a book made up of words consisting of letters from that alphabet can be copyrighted.

Think of notes as letters, chords as words and songs as books.

Quote:
Anyway doesn't it make you mad that music publishers want to make money even from stuff like this?.. :P the law is kinda crappy in some ways indeed...
It's annoying enough that my youtube cover vids get flagged :P now even chords..

Cheers

yeah it does. It's got to the point where copyright is about wealth generation rather than encouraging people to create artistic works.
__________________
Rhythm in Jump. Dancing Close to You.

Quote:
Originally Posted by element4433
Yeah. people, like Lemoninfluence, are hypocrites and should have all their opinions invalidated from here on out.
Lemoninfluence is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-13-2011, 09:08 AM   #13
Colohue
UG Writer
 
Colohue's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Blackpool, England
Legally, they are an existing representation of copyrighted material, which makes them copywrited material.

You can call UG whatever names you want. If you don't like it, run your own website for tabs and see how long it is before you get sued for infringement. Instead of doing that, you're choosing to waste your time bitching and whining because you can't find a tab you want.

Try learning to play the song without it.

Instead of complaining about what isn't there, be thankful of what is. The UG legal department works damned hard, just like everybody else in the Office, and they know better than you do what their website can and can not do.
__________________
Tom Colohue is a writer from Blackpool, England, recognisable for his integrative descriptive work and his cynical textual mannerisms.

Facebook Fan Page

Twitter feed

I have the most profile views on UG.
Colohue is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-13-2011, 02:58 PM   #14
rko
Furry Fool
 
rko's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Birmingham, England
Quote:
Originally Posted by Colohue
You can call UG whatever names you want. If you don't like it, run your own website for tabs and see how long it is before you get sued for infringement. Instead of doing that, you're choosing to waste your time bitching and whining because you can't find a tab you want.

Try learning to play the song without it.



What a great way to look at the situation.
I'll come to the site to look for tabs for songs, but once I can't access the tabs i'll just go ahead and learn the song myself.
Yes we are wasting our time by complaining in the 'Site Feedback' section. I was a fool to think that we are supposed to post problems here.
__________________
Follow Me on Twitter?
rko is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-13-2011, 03:27 PM   #15
Colohue
UG Writer
 
Colohue's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Blackpool, England
Quote:
Originally Posted by rko
What a great way to look at the situation.
I'll come to the site to look for tabs for songs, but once I can't access the tabs i'll just go ahead and learn the song myself.
Yes we are wasting our time by complaining in the 'Site Feedback' section. I was a fool to think that we are supposed to post problems here.


Consider how a complaint is given.

imfsimon for example has given a helpful piece of Feedback that the Office will find helpful.

eosteric has been nothing short of insulting and childish.

One was the target of my post, the other was not.
__________________
Tom Colohue is a writer from Blackpool, England, recognisable for his integrative descriptive work and his cynical textual mannerisms.

Facebook Fan Page

Twitter feed

I have the most profile views on UG.
Colohue is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-14-2011, 10:44 AM   #16
oldpink
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
its not UG's fault, there only complying with the law to keep the site open

there is a way around this issue for now this by using a proxy server like this one
http://www.hiddensurffreely.com/
simply go to that site and enter www.ultimate-guitar.com and then get the tab / chords you want
Oh and its free
oldpink is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-14-2011, 11:25 AM   #17
Seth Shadows
G|-18b19-~~[18]pb19~~~\
 
Seth Shadows's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
^Really? Just get a VPN.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cobain_is_king
Seth: 1
A7X: 0
Seth Shadows is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-22-2011, 11:50 AM   #18
pbking
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Common For F sake Music Industry now im def gonna downloade massive amounts of music online.. for F sake cant get tabs anymore what is this frikking world becoming...
pbking is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-22-2011, 12:17 PM   #19
JackalUK
ERANU
 
JackalUK's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
That seems a wholly unreasonable approach to the situation. The UG office is working to re-obtain the licenses needed to display the tabs online. All the red tape takes a while to clear.
JackalUK is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-23-2011, 10:09 AM   #20
cookiemonsterbo
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
as i cant just hop on a plane, are the blocks global? or country specific?
cookiemonsterbo is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump



All times are GMT -4. The time now is 07:20 PM.

Forum Archives / About / Terms of Use / Advertise / Contact / Ultimate-Guitar.Com © 2014
Powered by: vBulletin Version 3.0.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.