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Old 01-28-2013, 06:04 AM   #1421
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Quote:
Originally Posted by #1 synth
we are talking about the weakerthans, right?


I am always talking about The Weakerthans.
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Old 01-28-2013, 10:40 AM   #1422
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I agree with Allen, poetry will never die if people keep writing. The writing of yesteryear is gone, but poetry is broader than that; its scope is huge.
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Old 01-28-2013, 11:39 AM   #1423
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It's not just writing. People forget that song lyrics are just poetry. Music on its own has no inherent meaning, adding lyrics provides a sung/spoken poem along with music. So yeah, since a lot of people prefer music with words sung, I'd say that poetry's still alive and even thriving.


Even if it's not all as good as Eliot or Plath or whatever you dig, I wouldn't say that it's a dead artform. Or even if they don't recognize that the "meaning" in their music is actually just poetry.
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Old 01-28-2013, 11:58 AM   #1424
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What I find interesting is that most people do prefer words being sung in their music, yet they don't seem to give two shits about what these words are.
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Old 01-28-2013, 01:59 PM   #1425
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ATTN WRITERS: SUCK IT.
As a writer, I deal with a lot critique, from me, my peers, concerning my writing and theirs. It’s part of life. It is the unbroken chain of writing, you read yourself and others, compare thoughts and then promptly discuss how shitty each other’s things are and in the effort you make everyone around you better.

SO.

I can not stand, for once second, thin-skinned writers. Your words are your opinions, your thoughts, your “feels,” your love and your ideas. If you can not tolerate those close to you telling you that anything you do is poorly constructed, dumb, or stupid, then you should not be a writer. You shouldn’t be an artist, for those that can’t take critique, no matter how harsh and malignant are foolishly dependent on positivity, and that is never plentiful.

Stop being pussies, man up and take it that you’ll never be the best and that someone is always better and that is for the best because you can learn.

LEARN. TO BE. BETTER.
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Old 01-28-2013, 03:10 PM   #1426
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if you thought matts poetry was long winded!
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Old 01-28-2013, 03:38 PM   #1427
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Old 01-28-2013, 03:47 PM   #1428
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matt, what happened to your other post? i enjoyed it and agreed with it greatly. hey jared.
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Old 01-28-2013, 04:03 PM   #1429
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it's up in my original post, i didn't realize i posted it there.
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Old 01-28-2013, 11:44 PM   #1430
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gotcha. love me a good academic discussion on the relevance of poetry in a world that seems hell bent on stripping meaning from all forms of art
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Old 01-29-2013, 07:20 AM   #1431
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That wouldn't happen to be a jab at this, would it?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ali.guitarkid7
Music on its own has no inherent meaning.


I'm sorry but I think that this is very, very true. There's no such thing as a melody that will give you an image or an idea on its own unless the artist has already done so using the album cover or whatever. It's an abstract art.
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Old 01-29-2013, 09:27 AM   #1432
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ali.guitarkid7
There's no such thing as a melody that will give you an image or an idea on its own unless the artist has already done so using the album cover or whatever. It's an abstract art.


Haven't had time to read the rest of this whole discussion; but I couldn't disagree more with you on this point. I listen to lots of instrumental music; and I get mental images from songs like that all the time. In fact, a lot of the things I've written have been based off of mental images formed whilst listening to either melodies I've written or other people's melodies.


*Note: Self-Promotion to Follow*

My (instrumental) band has recorded a 40 minutes worth of music for a little EP release thing. Here are two tracks from it as single picture videos. I'd appreciate if you guys gave them a listen; and if you enjoy pass the links on to friends. We just want to get our music out there. Cheers if you read this; double cheers if you take 15 minutes to listen. Also, the second track is more "calm" than the first, so if you find the first to hectic, you may like the second.


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Old 01-29-2013, 11:14 PM   #1433
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definitely agree with zach on that one

^beginning song listening... now
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Old 01-30-2013, 01:54 AM   #1434
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Fully agree with Zach.

(But mix your songs better x.x)
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Old 01-30-2013, 09:12 AM   #1435
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If you have a minute, could you explain what you would change? This is a whole new realm to all of us; and recording these was basically done for the learning experience (and to have something to force on people after we play at bars).

We had a friend of our drummer do all the mixing (he went to Berklee for production...), but he plays and mixes almost exclusively pop. So when we first got these back, all the rhythm stuff was basically muted and you just heard the violin and other lead melodies. By our request, he's brought alot of that up so that you can hear all the instruments more; but I didn't really know what else to ask for.
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Old 01-30-2013, 08:25 PM   #1436
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Really? I mean, can an unnamed piece of music give you the same image or idea it will to another person? Ten other people? My point is that a poem can do that, it doesn't have to but it can. Same with painting, photography, a film etc. Music is an abstract art, at best it can provide mood/tone, but never meaning.
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Old 01-30-2013, 10:46 PM   #1437
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i'm on ali's side. music has no inherent meaning. it is not a 'standarized' form of communication. a tonic to a minor third has no inherent meaning, it may make you feel something, but it doesn't mean anything in its self. you might think 'well, it's sad', but it's not even that. show some nonwestern people that and they probably see it differently.

there's no standard 'music language'. there are no clear semiotic signs. no signifié or signifiant. no set units with their set values.

however we can analyze western music and notice a pattern of certain structures or movements which tend to evoke certain things. it'll be great if someone studied this more profoundly, defining certain trends and shit, but i still say that music has no inherent meaning.

hell, not even the words you say outloud have inherent meaning. they are just strings of phones. we've chosen that as our main way to convey meaning and it is somewhat standarized, like for example when anglophones hear the word 'table' they think of a table, but if a spanish guys hears the word, it'll be meaningless to him. it's a convention thing, completely social, etc. etc.

i, however, have always been curious as to what would happen if a child was not raised with a verbal language like ours, but instead a 'musical' one. like certain intervals meaning (probably) basic things, etc. just some way to construct a language based on music
relations. then it would be 'systematized' in the child's mind, it would have meaning. but still, music has no inherent meaning, he.
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Old 01-30-2013, 11:36 PM   #1438
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^

This my friend, I agree with. I have written two texts about this actually. Is perhaps language a form to control? As in, do we have another way of communication? I think it's interesting how our language have become by the following years, how certain words create impact on self, when in reality it's nothing but sounds.. like you said Take for example "cursing" What made those words a way for us to express anger? And who made them "bad"? Perhaps a certain doctrine made by certain people of an religious faith? (Sorry if I offended anyone there....)

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Old 01-31-2013, 12:10 AM   #1439
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whether there is inherent meaning or not I will still argue that that meaning exists. feeling is as much meaning as a meaning you can point to and pin down, even if that feeling itself is culturally informed and constructed. Where this conversation generally goes is relativism vs. essentialism. I'm going to take the cheap third option and say that at the end of the day when I'm exhausted from nine hours of splitting hairs of theology (which is, after all, one particular explicit and distilled study of truth) all I can say is that I feel meaning in music and thats good enough for me.

The older I get the more I seem to feel this way. Maybe we all eventually have to get burned out and jaded when we strive to live in a skeptical and youthful post-modernity. Maybe there really isnt meaning in seeking out the meaningless in what other people find meaningful.
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Old 01-31-2013, 12:18 AM   #1440
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4 the record i never thought of 'lacking' or 'having' meaning as important in appreciating a work of art. i don't think it's relevant in most cases. some of my poetry might pass off as 'meaningless', it's really not (to me at least/most of the time/doesn't matter), though the reader is free to use his perception of meaning as a mean to judge it 'good' or 'bad'. i think poetry can be appreciated in non-semantic ways. i think art is more about the experience, the contact between a 'work of art' and someone.

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^

This my friend, I agree with. I have written two texts about this actually. Is perhaps language a form to control? As in, do we have another way of communication? I think it's interesting how our language have become by the following years, how certain words create impact on self, when in reality it's nothing but sounds.. like you said Take for example "cursing" What made those words a way for us to express anger? And who made them "bad"? Perhaps a certain doctrine made by certain people of an religious faith? (Sorry if I offended anyone there....)


you should look into linguistics if you like that stuff. really interesting stuff

for example, about the 'badness' of words: in spanish the word we use for 'left' as in right and left, is 'izquierda', a word of vasque origin.
the reason we use that word and not the normal spanish one we originally had, 'siniestra', is because people started having bad feelings about 'the left side', as in there's a lot of superstitions and bad (religious?) stuff surrounding it, (hence why we call 'siniestro' something bad or dark, w.e.). they tried to avoid it, people didn't want to say the spanish word when they talked about the left side so they took another word (a vasque word) to replace the original one.

i think that type of stuff is dumb lol. still interesting
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