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Old 06-11-2011, 04:37 AM   #1
drmcclainphd
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You're Wrong About Copy Right

Every piece of original music I upload here to share is mine. I own it. I get to say what I can do with it. This is what "copy" "right" means. When I upload here, you make me promise that it's not copyrighted. Thus either I have to violate your terms or else am releasing my own material to public domain just because you say so. And your say so is inaccurate, misguided, and just plain wrong as a football bat.

What you SHOULD be saying is that people are not allowed to upload songs for which they do not own the rights to. By default every single original work is owned by its creator unless they sell the ownership in part or all. They own the rights to say who can make a copy -- they own the "copy" "rights".

For an outfit that portends to associate with so much of professional musicdom, you have an exceptionally amateurish idea of what copyright means. Yes, yes, everyone known what you mean. That means they know you don't know very much about what you're talking about.

I am not a lawyer. But you don't need to be to know your rights. I was in fact an expert witness in a copyright violation case against a major ISP, working for a group of intellectual property lawyers, so I know I know my rights To serve the music community, you should learn this as well. Liability protection, covering your asses should someone violate an owners copy rights, is no excuse for misrepresenting an important law.
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Old 06-11-2011, 05:24 AM   #2
Lewadra
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I can understand what they mean with that, all it takes is a little common sense, how is it "exceptionally amateurish" to not write like to a 4-year-old child? Seriously, cry m0ar.
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Old 06-11-2011, 05:42 AM   #3
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Although TS puts it rather bluntly, he may have a point. Common sense has less value in a legal dispute than the law.
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Old 06-11-2011, 09:43 AM   #4
Colohue
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If you have taken out a copyright notice on your own work, then UG can not legally host it on their servers, even under your own username. It's a blanket rule, since proving that the person on the other side of the screen is, in reality, the copyright holder, is extremely difficult and time consuming.

So I'm afraid you're wrong on this one. The fact that you wrote a piece of music does not mean that you are the copyright holder.
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Old 10-15-2012, 02:49 PM   #5
drmcclainphd
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Colohue
If you have taken out a copyright notice on your own work, then UG can not legally host it on their servers, even under your own username. It's a blanket rule, since proving that the person on the other side of the screen is, in reality, the copyright holder, is extremely difficult and time consuming.

So I'm afraid you're wrong on this one. The fact that you wrote a piece of music does not mean that you are the copyright holder.


I understand the blanket rule as it stands and will comply. However, it is flawed for the reasons stated and should be changed.

No, I'm not wrong. If you write a work, you most certainly are the copyright holder, unless you transfer all rights (sell as opposed to license).

A copyright notice is a mark on the work. You can place it as part of the creation process or later, or not at all. The law covers ownership

What you "register" for is copyright protection. It is the most certain way to prove ownership and/or transfers of rights. There are other ways to do so but are the responsibility of the owner to produce in a form beyond reasonable doubt.

Proving one to be the copyright (using UG's definition, which should more properly include the term "published" and/or "commercially available") holder is not difficult, time consuming or the responsibility of UG. Works available for purchase can easily be confirmed if the copyright notice and/or owner's name is affixed.

One can prove that one is that person in the generally accepted way, by providing a verifiable credit card number under that same name. UG trusts this to get peoples' money, they ought to be able to trust it in the less stringent sense of proving identity, using a means already in place. Unless, of course, they don't care if credit card fraud is being perpetrated as long as they get their money, but want to dodge possible liability issues when they don't stand to profit.

Liability is the issue here, and a perfectly valid one. However, UG goes to such extremes that it cuts off its own nose. I should think they'd be utterly delighted to have users posting material from their published CDs in order to show just how many professionals participate here. By simply requiring a link to a publicly available source with the owner's name affixed, plus ID verification just as used to sell things, UG would be more than adequately protected from liability. Without such protection, despite all the disclaimers, if someone uploads copyrighted material they don't own and it gets found out by the owner, UG *IS* liable, as it has not made a reasonable effort at verification.

With this level of protection, acceptable in any country that prescribes to the copyright law in US Code Title 17, UG is covered and protected and need not make any effort to investigate or enforce further. It becomes the responsibility of the copyright holder to notify UG of infringement and provide evidence of ownership. This is typically done via the relevant entry of infringement contacts (mostly attorneys) listed in the US in the Library of Congress's web site.

Publicly available copyrighted works can be verified. What UG can't verify is whether or not someone's MP3 upload was swiped from someone else's long defunct page, a covert recording of a concert, local garage band, etc. These receive the same consideration under the law, and although harder to prove can in fact be proven, and UG remains wide open to liability.

So, no I won't. I wish I could, and if UG thought about it, so would they. In such a case, rather than simply checking a box saying it's not copyrighted, one could simply fill in a box providing a URL to a public source with name affixed, and fill out the self-same credit card form to run an automated verification. Then UG users with things published could share them on UG making it look better, thus attracting more users to sign up, including for UG+.

If one creates and affixes (ie. writes or records) something, one owns it. Ownership confers the right of control over one's possessions regardless of any overt marking naming the owner. Control over affixed material means control over who may use it and in what form, and with what permission from the owner. This is the very essence of the nearly globally accepted copyright law. Unless there is a verifiable (there's that pesky problem again, but worse this time) statement by an owner of donation of a work to the public domain, every single recording posted on UG is either pilfered or copyrighted (despite the checkbox and the sadly flawed UG definition of "copyrighted"), or both, and anyone who ever posted these should be banned and the material removed. I've removed mine and won't be uploading 10 cuts from my three albums to share here, as I was just about to.

Side note: Where "liability" is mentioned, try inserting "scandal". Even if there's no legal action taken there can be a hell of a lot of bad publicity.

Last edited by drmcclainphd : 10-15-2012 at 03:09 PM. Reason: additional material
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Old 10-15-2012, 06:46 PM   #6
Lemoninfluence
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drmcclainphd
Every piece of original music I upload here to share is mine. I own it. I get to say what I can do with it. This is what "copy" "right" means. When I upload here, you make me promise that it's not copyrighted. Thus either I have to violate your terms or else am releasing my own material to public domain just because you say so. And your say so is inaccurate, misguided, and just plain wrong as a football bat.

What you SHOULD be saying is that people are not allowed to upload songs for which they do not own the rights to. By default every single original work is owned by its creator unless they sell the ownership in part or all. They own the rights to say who can make a copy -- they own the "copy" "rights".

For an outfit that portends to associate with so much of professional musicdom, you have an exceptionally amateurish idea of what copyright means. Yes, yes, everyone known what you mean. That means they know you don't know very much about what you're talking about.

I am not a lawyer. But you don't need to be to know your rights. I was in fact an expert witness in a copyright violation case against a major ISP, working for a group of intellectual property lawyers, so I know I know my rights To serve the music community, you should learn this as well. Liability protection, covering your asses should someone violate an owners copy rights, is no excuse for misrepresenting an important law.


I'm not a lawyer, but I do have a law degree. Those instructions are for the common user whose understanding of 'copyrighted work' is usually 'professional recording made by a famous person'. Considering the jurisdiction of the site, the wording you're objecting to creates an impossibility. As soon as a work is fixed it is copyrighted, as such there is no such thing as non-copyrighted music unless you make an explicit statement that you release the work into the public domain (which is not on that page).

Given the context of that page, nobody could argue that you, as a creator of an artistic work, put the work into the public domain by uploading it to UG. There is even an explanation of what is meant by 'copyrighted music'.

The Terms of Service go into more detail on this matter.

Quote:
7.1 ... If you are a Registered User, you represent and agree that any use by you of such features, including any User Generated Content or links submitted or posted by you, shall be your sole responsibility, shall not infringe or violate the rights of any other party or violate any laws, contribute to or encourage infringing or otherwise unlawful conduct, or otherwise be obscene, objectionable or in poor taste, and that you have obtained all necessary rights, licenses or clearances. Registered Users also further agree to provide accurate and complete information in connection with your submission or posting of any User Generated Content on the Service. “User Generated Content” includes, without limitation, tablatures (text or electronic), reviews, videos, photos, articles, audio files, applications and any other content whether copyrightable or not.

7.2 Ultimate Guitar does not claim any ownership rights in User Generated Content that you transmit, submit, display or publish (“post”) on, through or in connection with the Service. After posting your User Generated Content on, through or in connection with the Service, you continue to retain any such rights that you may have in your User Generated Content, subject to the limited license herein. By posting any User Generated Content on, through or in connection with the Service, you hereby grant to Ultimate Guitar a limited license to use, modify, delete from, add to, publicly perform, publicly display, reproduce, and distribute such User Generated Content solely on, through or in connection with the Service, including, without limitation, through the Service to applications, widgets, websites or mobile, desktop, including, without limitation, distributing part or all of the Service and any User Generated Content included therein, in any media formats and through any media channels, and shall constitute a waiver of any rights, ''moral rights,'' or any similar rights under any jurisdiction.

7.3 The license you grant to Ultimate Guitar is non-exclusive (meaning you are free to license your User Generated Content to anyone else in addition to Ultimate Guitar), fully-paid and royalty-free (meaning that Ultimate Guitar is not required to pay you or anyone else deriving rights from you for the use on the Service of the User Generated Content that you post), sublicensable (so that Ultimate Guitar is able to use its affiliates, subcontractors and other partners such as Internet content delivery networks and wireless carriers to provide the Services), perpetual (meaning that no termination of this Agreement will affect the license granted by you), and worldwide (because the Internet and the Services are global in reach).


I believe these are the relevant clauses in relation to your points.

Disclaimer: I don't speak for the UG office on this matter, my username is a different colour because I volunteer to moderate the column section.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by element4433
Yeah. people, like Lemoninfluence, are hypocrites and should have all their opinions invalidated from here on out.
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