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Old 06-21-2011, 07:53 AM   #1
Seb1uk
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Tech/Prog Metal Riff (c4c)

Been listening to a lot of Corelia, a bit of The Haarp Machine and more of those new proggy bands recently so I felt like trying some techy prog metal ideas.

I've come up with a verse riff that I'd just like some feedback on. And I'm also wondering, is the hi-hat ridiculously fast? Or is it possible you think? I can tap a desk that fast but I'd imagine it's a bit more difficult on drums.

c4c of course.

EDIT: Did a bit more on it, v5
EDIT: Tried to come up with an intro to link to the verse, ending up sounding very ABR-ish and metalcore, but that's not a bad thign right? I want to do more with the intro though. v6
EDIT: Done some more, v8
EDIT: Finished, but not it's not final. I'm not so sure about the transition into the clean break, and from the Epic to Verse 3. I'd also like to specifically know if they thought the Epic section was a satisfying release to the build-up because I think that's the most important part right? v12
EDIT: Had another quick listen and I felt I needed to extend the Epic section. Unnecessarily long now or better? v13
EDIT: Changed the transition into the clean break slightly, and panned the cross solo section for now to make both parts more easily audible v14

EDIT: did a rough demo of this http://www.ultimate-guitar.com/foru...88#post28847188
Attached Files
File Type: gp5 rock 227 v5.gp5 (16.9 KB, 148 views)
File Type: gp5 rock 227 v6.gp5 (28.3 KB, 145 views)
File Type: gp5 rock 227 v8.gp5 (37.1 KB, 103 views)
File Type: gp5 rock 227 v14.gp5 (89.1 KB, 369 views)

Last edited by Seb1uk : 01-02-2012 at 12:10 PM.
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Old 06-21-2011, 02:15 PM   #2
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v6. Man, that was beautiful. Like you said you want to do more with the intro. You could try adding an acoustic/clean solo that fades into a distorted electric solo. Oh and try to do some different time signatures, 4/4 gets boring after a while.

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Old 06-21-2011, 06:22 PM   #3
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Intro was a cool theme, and I liked the use of chromatics in it. It also builds action well. I could do without breakdowns, Honestly I wish they would stop completely, but this seems more of a rhythm based solo backing. I can't stand it when it's an entire section of galloping though.

Verse is good, although going from a that halfstep chord way up at the 11th and 14th fret back to the lower range could be difficult. I liked the break at 30, and the pre-chorus. The chorus is great, although I'm dissapointed it didn't transition into anything else. Because it ended.

Good material here, so keep working on it.
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Old 06-22-2011, 01:34 PM   #4
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v8
I never heard off Corelia or The Haarp Machine, but if they sound anything like this then they're worth a listen.
Anyway I think the breakdown is great how it is and the stop and go effect the rhythm has is a good touch. Also I think the song is very well structured and never went "off-topic" so you kept the general tone throughout.
On bar 9 I like the transition to a heavier theme but you should repeat the rhythm on bar 11 too (as in the rhythm gtr, bass and drums but keep the lead gtr how it is).
The verse was my favorite part,
The prechorus was also impressive, especially how you kept the beat while the time sig was 15/16, it didnt sound forced or anything.

As for the rest of the song I think you should repeat the verse then prechorus then chorus, then repeat the chorus, have an interlud of some sort and see how it goes from there, maybe add a solo or a clean section, or maybe a demonic breakdown, its totally up to you.

And to answer your question, The hi-hats aren't too fast but it would take a skilled drummer to do so.

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Last edited by JCAshworth247 : 06-22-2011 at 01:36 PM.
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Old 06-22-2011, 01:51 PM   #5
Seb1uk
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Cheers for the feedback guys. I've considered doing an acoustic guitar intro to lead into what I've got right now

LifeisBrutal: I'm a bit of a sucker for good breakdowns to be honest, although I never really use them in my music, but don't think of me as one of those Attack! Attack! kids hah. Oh and going from the low end of the guitar up to the 11th and 14th fret is fine, I always play what I write to make sure I can play it. Care to have a listen to v8 and see if you're happy with what the chorus leads to?

JCAshworth: Definitely have a listen to Corelia, http://www.corelliaband.com/ They're a new band who are soon to release their EP, have a listen to Glass Faces which I think is the best song they've got revealed right now. And yeah I'm thinking of going to a clean break after the break at the end of v8. I'm gonna have to crit yours tomorrow though sorry, it'll take a bit of time to crit yours since it's quite long and I really need to study for my exam tomorrow.
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Old 06-22-2011, 03:35 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Seb1uk
Cheers for the feedback guys. I've considered doing an acoustic guitar intro to lead into what I've got right now

LifeisBrutal: I'm a bit of a sucker for good breakdowns to be honest, although I never really use them in my music, but don't think of me as one of those Attack! Attack! kids hah. Oh and going from the low end of the guitar up to the 11th and 14th fret is fine, I always play what I write to make sure I can play it. Care to have a listen to v8 and see if you're happy with what the chorus leads to?

JCAshworth: Definitely have a listen to Corelia, http://www.corelliaband.com/ They're a new band who are soon to release their EP, have a listen to Glass Faces which I think is the best song they've got revealed right now. And yeah I'm thinking of going to a clean break after the break at the end of v8. I'm gonna have to crit yours tomorrow though sorry, it'll take a bit of time to crit yours since it's quite long and I really need to study for my exam tomorrow.


yea no problem,

That band sounds great, I was a little disappointed at the beginning of the song, it just sounded like a congested assortment of licks but after like a minute it got really good. btw what happened to v7?
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Old 06-22-2011, 04:43 PM   #7
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Yeah that whole kinda atonal section kinda grows on you after a while. Although it just flows a lot more to me just because I've learnt it and just knows how it goes.

v7 had an another idea for a section to come after the chorus, it was quite metalcorey and sounded a bit too similar to something I had written before so I changed it.
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Old 06-23-2011, 06:35 PM   #8
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Intro: I'm not a fan of the minor 2nd harmonies in the 2nd bar here. I can see what you're going for, maybe change it to a major 2nd but it just doesn't work for me. Apart from that the entire Intro is fine.

Breakdown: I hate breakdowns but this one is obviously much more musical than the repetitive guff that plagues Metal these days. Not bad in all honesty. Actually reminded me of one of the riffs in 'Born' by Nevermore.

Verse: Good stuff here once again. This also reminds me of Nevermore with the exception of the minor 2nd harmony notes. The melodic section in bars 30-31 was a nice change of mood and hinted at what is to come. However if you want the song to be even better, I suggest adding a counter riff in the last few bars of this section. Look up 'Elegy of Icaros' by Emperor and you'll see how good Ihsahn is at composing.

Pre-Chorus: Good. I liked the little 15/16 bar you used to throw the listener off a bit. It gives a sense of uncertainty, and I like that.

Chorus: I'm halfway between liking this and hating it. I can see why someone who listened to this type of music would like it but it sounds so sappy to me. On the plus side, the lead part reminds me of Nevermore (Born also) again. Maybe try something with more 4th/11th intervals, they'll give the progression the grit it needs.

Verse: Tonally its the same as the Chorus, too sappy. But I loved the interplay between the rhythm and lead guitar here. Really good.

Break: It flowed very nicely from the previous section and the melodies were also good.

I recommend a technical but melodic guitar solo using the same chord progression in the Chorus, followed by another guitar solo using the rhythmic figure of the Breakdown. Then go into the Pre-Chorus, Chorus and you're done. Maybe modulate between the Pre-Chorus and Chorus to make the effect stronger.

Overall, I'm quite impressed. Everything was composed in a very musical manner and it all flowed perfectly. My complaints are only a matter of preference, so keep it up.

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Old 06-24-2011, 10:09 AM   #9
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HaydenHohns: I quite like the minor 2nd harmony hah, but fair enough. Just guessing, if I was to make the minor 2nd a major 2nd, would that mean just putting the 11 up to 12? I'll consider working a counter riff into the last few bars of the verse, I can kinda imagine it already. I'm not a big fan of Emperor, well the vocals that is, but I definitely like the music itself. I quite enjoyed 'Elegy of Icaros'.

And the chorus was one of my favourite parts! But yeah I'll try some of those intervals. I'm not sure if I wanna stick in a guitar solo to be honest, I haven't really thought about what I wanna do next but I definitely want to do the pre-chorus and chorus again. And it's interesting you say this was composed in a very musical manner because I really lack any music theory, but it's nice to know it looks musically correct.
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Old 06-24-2011, 06:05 PM   #10
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In order to make it a major 2nd harmony you need to increase the distance to two semitones (Or two fret positions). So your G# to G will become A to G. Because the minor 2nd harmonies in the verse were good but not the intro (IMO). I can understand someone not liking the vocals (It took me a while to get used to them), but compositionally he is really advanced, no arguments there. You can probably download the GP5 file from here and deconstruct how he composes. I know I always do that when I want to expand my musical horizons.

The Chorus isn't bad, it's just too 'core' in sound for me. Maybe the fact that I continued to compare this song to Born by Nevermore might be why I wanted you to use 4th/11th related intervals (Born has them in the Chorus).

I think a really well composed guitar solo would make this song. Listen to Tornado of Souls by Megadeth. That song was what made me serious about guitar. It's incredibly melodic and complex from a tonal aspect as well as having the 'wow' factor that you get from well composed shred music.

Yeah well apart from an abrupt key change from the Intro to Breakdown to Verse it was incredibly musical. Maybe well thought out was the word I was looking for.
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Old 06-25-2011, 01:10 AM   #11
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Um. Wow, Honestly I'd like to give a detailed crit like you did for me, but I don't have anything bad to say about anything at all here. The only suggestion I have is I think the intro sounds better if you don't make the notes ring. That might just be guitar pro though. Maybe give the bass a little more attention. The only time I noticed it really got to do it's own thing was the very last riff. I have to keep that in mind in my own compositions too I realize.
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Old 06-26-2011, 02:50 PM   #12
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Intro was pretty heavy, I wasn't really expecting that from the rest of the stuff I've heard from you. You made the chromatic shit work here, good job with that. Bars 30-31 in the verse stood out, that was pretty awesome right there. Besides that, I didn't find the breakdown or the verse to be that special, that's just my opinion there, I'm sure vocals would spice everything up. The Pre-Chorus honestly was like nothing I've heard before, that was unique and great, very good job there. The Chorus was great, but it wasn't all that unique at all, it seems sort of typical for your writing, but hey it works. Nice job on that verse going into the break, that was great too.

For the rest of the song, I could see an acoustic intro to the song, that could work. I don't think that the intro is the type of riff I would want to bring back though. Maybe try to make the second half a very cohesive type of buildup? You know, like some slow clean break and build it up to an epic outro? What you have is pretty cool stuff, and a hardcore prog metal fan should love it. Maybe have that first verse riff come in over a slow breakdown, I'd enjoy the shit out of that.

Overall, it's a very well written song. Maybe not the best I've heard, but to be honest, there's nothing I can tell you to change about it. It's written perfectly for what it is, so great job with the writing. I would definitely listen to this if it were recorded.
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Old 06-27-2011, 03:25 PM   #13
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Macabre_Turtle: I actually paid a fair bit of attention to the bass actually! It's a lot more different to the rhythm guitar tracks compared to most of my stuff. I guess it just doesn't stand out. The intro doesn't quite work without ringing notes in my opinion. If anything maybe a clean guitar sound works better.

Mean Mr Mustard: Yeah I just liked the breakdown as a moment for the music to kick in and start moving your head hah. And yeah I realise the chorus is kinda typical of my writing, but I hope that's not meaning it's going stale, I do try to keep it as different as possible while still keeping in my own style. And actually I kinda imagined what you said about building up to an epic section with a slow clean break, which I tried doing now. Can you tell me what you think of it now?

Cheers guys, I just finished the song, if some people wanna re-listen and tell me what they think. I'm not so sure about the transition into the clean break, I dunno, it feels, musicall immature I guess? And I dunno about the transition from the Epic to Verse 3. I'd also like to specifically know if they thought the Epic section was a satisfying release to the build-up because I think that's the most important part right?

EDIT: Just added v13, which is an extension on the Epic section.
EDIT: Changed the transition into the Clean Break slightly, v14

Last edited by Seb1uk : 06-27-2011 at 04:22 PM.
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Old 06-27-2011, 08:08 PM   #14
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Everything you added was great, I really enjoyed that Epic section, nice job Nice release, and yes, it goes back into the Verse pretty nicely actually.
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Old 06-27-2011, 11:27 PM   #15
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The changes are great, man. Great improvements.
Don't take my bass comments to seriously. The bass is certainly well written.
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Old 06-28-2011, 12:36 AM   #16
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i gotta say i didnt like the first 16 measures. bar 17 was were it got good though. the lead was sick, it compimented the rhythm breakdown nicely. im not fond of the 15/16 time signature, it feels like its only there just to make it proggy. bar 78 was nice, the jazz guitar made the song sound much nicer. the cross solo's were nice but they seem to distract each other a bit. maybe change one an octave lower so the dont clash as much? the chorushad a solid melody. and the outro so was quite intense, it made it feel like a climax but then it abruptly ends.
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Old 06-28-2011, 07:59 AM   #17
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Cheers. And amonamarth yeah I can see what you mean by the 15/16, but it kinda just flows in my head really. Initially the whole pre-chorus was 15/16 when I wrote the riff, but when I added the drums it didn't sound quite right. Maybe it's a bit unnecessary hmm...and for the outro, yeah I wanted a fade out actually but then I realised how most of my songs have fade outs so I just wanted it to be a bit different. Oh and I'll consider the thing about making one of the guitars an octave lower for the 'cross solo' coz I kinda thought a similar thing actually. But I guess if you don't take it literally as a solo and just a section of nice sounding cross melodies then it would be alright.

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Old 06-28-2011, 08:35 AM   #18
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Don't get rid of the 15/16 bar, it flows nicely but is unexpected, it keeps you on your toes.
On the whole it's an excellent song, really epic and well written, pretty flawless.
I would have to say I personally think the prechorus hi hat is too fast, you'd struggle to find someone to play that. I don't think it'd hurt to slow it down.
I also agree that one of the solos in the cross should be an octave lower, they can't really be separated audibly which is annoying.
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Old 06-28-2011, 08:53 AM   #19
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Thanks man. Yeah the second pre-chorus has a slightly different drum beat and has 16th note hi-hat hits instead for the most part and it doesn't detract from the overall sound at all I think, so I'll probably do the same with the first pre-chorus. I did a quick fix for the cross solo for now by heavily panning both tracks which helps a bit. But I'll be sure to try making one guitar an octave lower soon, I just can't be arsed right now.
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Old 06-29-2011, 01:10 PM   #20
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Intro: I can't really tell if I like this or not, haha. I love the 'groove' the notes have, but it feels kinda cliche/boring or something...

Breakdown: SO METALCORE. But not bad, it's catchy.

Not to be lazy but, literally the entire rest of it I loved. There is nothing bad for me to say about anything else, and no part is specifically best, because they're all fantastic.

On the 15/16 measure: Tbh, didn't even notice it ear-wise, haha. I think that makes it smooth enough.

And the solos don't need to be transposed IMO if you just have it panned a bit.


But yeah, this is really awesome. Got a really 'epic' feel throughout, haha, love it. Good work, now record it. ;3
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