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View Poll Results: "Hello Krusty Krab?" "No this is PATRIOTISM"
1 - I've already started the revolution 32 13.73%
2 18 7.73%
3 - I write demeaning stuff about it on the Internet 37 15.88%
4 19 8.15%
5 - It's k, bro 38 16.31%
6 - It's better than k, bro 29 12.45%
7 33 14.16%
8 - I'd die to protect it and the people that live in it 20 8.58%
9 2 0.86%
10 - My country is perfect and I don't want it to ever change 5 2.15%
Voters: 233. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 09-13-2011, 04:55 AM   #41
devourke
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Originally Posted by darkstar2466
This is the 21st century. The nations/countries model doesn't work anymore. We've gotta grow up and face real integration and collaboration, or we're gonna chase our egotistic attitudes right down the bunny hole and fuck ourselves into collapse. That being said... Jah bless... America that is.


So you propose that we all share resources or something? Then would every landmass on the world report to one global leader and be under one set of global laws? I don't think that's what you're planning because that sounds like it wouldn't work very well.

Please elaborate on your plan
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Old 09-13-2011, 04:56 AM   #42
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I'm not a big fan of a lot of US politics, and I don't like some of our foreign policy decisions. That said, I quite enjoy living here.

This. I do like Britain, or at least the parts I've seen of it. However, it required no work or effort on my part to be born from here, so I can't really be proud of being from it. Proud of working hard at uni/guitar etc? Yes. An accident of birth? Nah.
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Old 09-13-2011, 04:58 AM   #43
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Originally Posted by devourke
So you propose that we all share resources or something? Then would every landmass on the world report to one global leader and be under one set of global laws? I don't think that's what you're planning because that sounds like it wouldn't work very well.

Please elaborate on your plan


Human laws for human residents of planet Earth. How about that for a change.
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Old 09-13-2011, 05:01 AM   #44
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Originally Posted by darkstar2466
Human laws for human residents of planet Earth. How about that for a change.


Who decides on these laws though? You'd have to take into account all the different religions, cultures and all that whatnot and then tell them that these are the new laws that they'd have to follow. It seems nice but it doesn't seem viable on a global scale.
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Old 09-13-2011, 05:05 AM   #45
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i voted 5 though because it really it like k, bro. there doesn't seem to be much hope in having individuals actually having anything to do to change it other than going through massive amounts of politics, which i strongly dislike. that could just be me being highly cynical, though.
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Old 09-13-2011, 05:06 AM   #46
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Originally Posted by devourke
Who decides on these laws though? You'd have to take into account all the different religions, cultures and all that whatnot and then tell them that these are the new laws that they'd have to follow. It seems nice but it doesn't seem viable on a global scale.


I didn't say anything about us being ready for that yet. We've got a lot of ideological restructuring cut out for us, and if we don't get there in time... well... there is a cutoff point. I don't want to get into that.
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Old 09-13-2011, 05:10 AM   #47
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I didn't say anything about us being ready for that yet. We've got a lot of ideological restructuring cut out for us, and if we don't get there in time... well... there is a cutoff point. I don't want to get into that.


You're acting like the world's gonna end bro, are there some Spanish rebels with access to a stockpile of Nuclear Arms or something?

But when you say "We've got a lot of ideological restructuring" do you mean the whole world or just a few countries at a time? Because I seriously doubt that every country in the world is going to hand over power to one global government and relinquish whatever power they're currently holding.

Out of curiosity what sort of government did you see ruling the world?
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Old 09-13-2011, 05:11 AM   #48
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Originally Posted by devourke
Who decides on these laws though? You'd have to take into account all the different religions, cultures and all that whatnot and then tell them that these are the new laws that they'd have to follow. It seems nice but it doesn't seem viable on a global scale.
no you dont, religion should never be taken into account when redacting laws, although i agree that religion freedom is a must
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Old 09-13-2011, 05:13 AM   #49
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I think it's ludicrous to have pride in your country while ignoring all that is bad about your country, that kind of patriotism is insane.

To me, true patriotism is feeling the need to improve your country because it's your country.
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Old 09-13-2011, 05:15 AM   #50
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Originally Posted by devourke
You're acting like the world's gonna end bro, are there some Spanish rebels with access to a stockpile of Nuclear Arms or something?

But when you say "We've got a lot of ideological restructuring" do you mean the whole world or just a few countries at a time? Because I seriously doubt that every country in the world is going to hand over power to one global government and relinquish whatever power they're currently holding.

Out of curiosity what sort of government did you see ruling the world?


Nah, I'm looking at it from a purely evolutionary perspective. Species collapse, prevalent in humans inducing it on fish, isn't something humans aren't immune to by inducing it unto themselves.

These are just silly ideals of mine. We're going nowhere anytime soon boys. Let's grab a couple of beers and watch who wins the 2012 elections.
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Old 09-13-2011, 05:16 AM   #51
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Wow I can't believe how many of you don't know what patriotism is. It is not taking pride in the accomplishments of your country. It is devotion to your country. If you campaign for something you believe in because you think it will better your country, then you are a patriot, you angsty fucking teenagers.


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"The standard dictionary definition reads “love of one's country.” This captures the core meaning of the term in ordinary use; but it might well be thought too thin and in need of fleshing out. In what is still the sole book-length philosophical study of the subject, Stephen Nathanson (1993, 34–35) defines patriotism as involving:

* Special affection for one's own country
* A sense of personal identification with the country
* Special concern for the well-being of the country
* Willingness to sacrifice to promote the country's good"


In other words, patriotism is the embodiment of the idea that your country deserves more than others - with no other objective reason than you being a citizen of it.

That's not even the point though. The point is what people think, do, and say in the name of patriotism. Sure, good things can come out of it, but learning from history the opposite is true most of the time. I really couldn't care less about what it means to you personally, and calling people angsty doesn't exactly help your case.
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Old 09-13-2011, 05:20 AM   #52
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Originally Posted by Ahteh
* Special affection for one's own country
* A sense of personal identification with the country
* Special concern for the well-being of the country
* Willingness to sacrifice to promote the country's good"[/I]

In other words, patriotism is the embodiment of the idea that your country deserves more than others - with no other objective reason than you being a citizen of it.

None of those things imply that. At all.
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Old 09-13-2011, 05:20 AM   #53
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Originally Posted by Ahteh
"The standard dictionary definition reads “love of one's country.” This captures the core meaning of the term in ordinary use; but it might well be thought too thin and in need of fleshing out. In what is still the sole book-length philosophical study of the subject, Stephen Nathanson (1993, 34–35) defines patriotism as involving:

* Special affection for one's own country
* A sense of personal identification with the country
* Special concern for the well-being of the country
* Willingness to sacrifice to promote the country's good"


In other words, patriotism is the embodiment of the idea that your country deserves more than others - with no other objective reason than you being a citizen of it.

That's not even the point though. The point is what people think, do, and say in the name of patriotism. Sure, good things can come out of it, but learning from history the opposite is true most of the time. I really couldn't care less about what it means to you personally, and calling people angsty doesn't exactly help your case.


I meet all these criteria but I don't believe New Zealand deserves more than others. I'd die to defend it, but I wouldn't invade another country for the benefit of more power towards New Zealand. The country I love would never ask me to do such a thing though, so it looks like I'm all good in that department.

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Quote:
Originally Posted by crohno
no you dont, religion should never be taken into account when redacting laws, although i agree that religion freedom is a must


That's exactly the point of taking religion into account. If religious freedom is a must then you can't create a law which stops a person from fully practising every part of their religion.

Last edited by devourke : 09-13-2011 at 05:23 AM.
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Old 09-13-2011, 05:22 AM   #54
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Originally Posted by Ahteh
"The standard dictionary definition reads “love of one's country.” This captures the core meaning of the term in ordinary use; but it might well be thought too thin and in need of fleshing out. In what is still the sole book-length philosophical study of the subject, Stephen Nathanson (1993, 34–35) defines patriotism as involving:

* Special affection for one's own country
* A sense of personal identification with the country
* Special concern for the well-being of the country
* Willingness to sacrifice to promote the country's good"


In other words, patriotism is the embodiment of the idea that your country deserves more than others - with no other objective reason than you being a citizen of it.

That's not even the point though. The point is what people think, do, and say in the name of patriotism.
Sure, good things can come out of it, but learning from history the opposite is true most of the time. I really couldn't care less about what it means to you personally, and calling people angsty doesn't exactly help your case.



Change patriotism into religion and see if you still think it's fair to say that. In the way that it's unfair to brand Islam as a violent religion because there are some muslims who do violence in its name, it is also unfair to scorn patriotism because of the extreme nationalism that it can sometimes result in.


As I stated previously, nationalism and patriotism aren't the same thing.
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Old 09-13-2011, 05:29 AM   #55
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Change patriotism into religion and see if you still think it's fair to say that. In the way that it's unfair to brand Islam as a violent religion because there are some muslims who do violence in its name, it is also unfair to scorn patriotism because of the extreme nationalism that it can sometimes result in.


As I stated previously, nationalism and patriotism aren't the same thing.


I'm not branding anyone, I'm not trying to attack you or other patriots personally. I'm just opposing patriotism as a concept, and the role it has in the modern world. I'm opposed to religion as well, if you'd like to draw that parallel, but that doesn't mean I hate every religious person. I just don't agree with them.

The point I was making above is that patriotism is - in the end - irrational. Which is why it doesn't appeal to me.

Devourke stated that he was proud of New Zealand in the post I responded to, which is why I posted that quote.
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Old 09-13-2011, 05:37 AM   #56
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I'm not branding anyone, I'm not trying to attack you or other patriots personally. I'm just opposing patriotism as a concept, and the role it has in the modern world. I'm opposed to religion as well, if you'd like to draw that parallel, but that doesn't mean I hate every religious person. I just don't agree with them.

The point I was making above is that patriotism is - in the end - irrational. Which is why it doesn't appeal to me.

Devourke stated that he was proud of New Zealand in the post I responded to, which is why I posted that quote.


It's possible to be proud of your country without thinking that it's the best country on the face of the planet though. I can say that I'm proud to live here and that I love my country. That's not to say that I think that the whole world should bow down to New Zealand's mighty rule because we're superior. Dying to protect my neighbours, the people that I see on the streets everyday, my friends, my family and everyone else in this wonderful country just doesn't seem irrational to me.

I love my country and my countrypeople


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Old 09-13-2011, 05:39 AM   #57
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I love my country and my countrypeople


That's just fine... do you love all other countries and all other countrypeople just the same?
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Old 09-13-2011, 05:40 AM   #58
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I'm not branding anyone, I'm not trying to attack you or other patriots personally. I'm just opposing patriotism as a concept, and the role it has in the modern world. I'm opposed to religion as well, if you'd like to draw that parallel, but that doesn't mean I hate every religious person. I just don't agree with them.

The point I was making above is that patriotism is - in the end - irrational. Which is why it doesn't appeal to me.

Devourke stated that he was proud of New Zealand in the post I responded to, which is why I posted that quote.



Pride doesn't necessitate superiority. It is not dangerous if you don't believe it to be superior.
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Old 09-13-2011, 05:41 AM   #59
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What sporting event is on?

That defines my level of patriotism.
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Old 09-13-2011, 05:48 AM   #60
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That's just fine... do you love all other countries and all other countrypeople just the same?


I got some love for Australians, but keep that on the down low because Australians and New Zealanders are never supposed to admit that we secretly like each other.

As for the other countries and countrypeople; I can say that I don't, because not having lived anywhere except Australia and New Zealand, I don't really know what the people are like outside of the Pacific. I am curious though, so I usually ask what it's like in other countries whenever I talk to someone in a different country. So I love New Zealand more than any other country in the world, I'm never gonna say that New Zealand is better than any other country.
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