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Old 10-07-2011, 08:12 PM   #61
iwannabesedated
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Originally Posted by vicarious46
Yeah I'm not even close to well off too(not saying poor because there's people who probably have it waaaaay worse then I), not gonna really go into detail because thats personal, but I'm taking SOME goddamn responsibility for my financial status.

Obviously it wasn't my choice/I had no say on being born into a country during a period of financial crisis, not be well off, etc etc.
But what is my choice/responsibility is taking advantage of what I can to better my situation. If i don't have shit for money, have a bad paying job and no education I'm gonna change that. That's why I'm going to a tech institute so when I'm out of college I can decide my own situation.

What I've seen about a lot of supporters(atleast in the Boston area) in the organization is that it's 18-24 year old kids who don't have careers paths, don't go to college and grew up in an age where there parents handed them everything on a silver platter. And now Instead of taking responsibility for their current situation and making the best of it though a lot of them expect the gov't to give them handouts instead of them going out and making careers of themselves.
And then what really bugs me is when they think the gov't is 'opressing' them, persecuting them, etc.

I'm well aware the gov't needs to change its policies and the people who are in charge of the economy here need to do something and do it quick to create jobs but this movement I just can't side with.

YES corporate greed needs to end and
YES politicians need to create policies that create jobs. But a lot of this movement is completely irrelevant to this notion.


You don't really understand the point of the protest. The protest isn't for handouts, people want to stand up on their own, but they can't because there's no solid ground on which to stand.

They can't get a better education because they have no money.
They can't get more money because there are no jobs. 55% of young people are unemployed, and that's because the jobs they used to get with no trouble (Fast food, etc) they now have to compete with adults to get.
There are no jobs because of outsourcing and the fact that companies would rather layoff 50 people to give their CEO a bonus.
Companies are allowed to do this because they own politicians.
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Old 10-07-2011, 08:13 PM   #62
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Originally Posted by JimmyBanks6
People have a tendancy to think that corporations are out to get them, they arent, they are out to make money. Changing rules wont change this,


Yes, but just like how lawyers aren't out to get the general public, it is usually the average joes who get the shit end of the stick. Changing rules can make a difference especially when the loss was caused by deceptive conduct. For example, protecting people who neglected to read 500 pages of terms and conditions written in size 8 fine print.
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Old 10-07-2011, 08:14 PM   #63
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Originally Posted by due 07
The protestors aren't the violent ones here, the cops are. And the riots in UK are nothing like the peaceful protests here. Different causes. Different conditions -- the nature of the UK police force had a lot to do with riots happening in the first place. Besides the fact that there are a lot of working people in the same place, there's virtually nothing similar to the UK riots. I have no idea how you got that idea.

If anything people need to fight back though, the police are just rounding thousands of them up and kettling them on brooklyn bridge as that article you posted said. This can't go on, how much longer will people be treated like sheep?
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Old 10-07-2011, 08:14 PM   #64
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Originally Posted by behind_you
You clearly have no idea what the protests in UK were about. And you have no idea how they turned violent. Try reading, dumbass.

Yeah, because I wasn't sitting there as they happened, talking to at least 8 English people, and an American who happened to be vacationing in England that week.
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Old 10-07-2011, 08:15 PM   #65
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I read somewhere the fraternal order of police are going to support Occupy Wall Street.
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Old 10-07-2011, 08:15 PM   #66
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Originally Posted by due 07
You said they have no idea why they're "rioting." (Which they aren't, by the way.) See here:
Then you said:

...

Nowhere did i change my view on them being lazy hipsters, lrn2read.


then i said:

Quote:
Originally Posted by JimmyBanks6
They have no unified goal and no demands that make follow in their idea to stop "corporate greed"

They want to stop corporate greed, and i want to stop unsustainable energy use, but hey, i dont have a way to complete that either, and protesting about oil isnt going to fix anything without a real solution to switch to.

Its honestly a waste of time and resources, they arent going to fix anything, and wallstreet is just laughing at them. Its a good idea executed poorly and therefore a waste of time. Give me a real way to change the issues that is plausible, and maybe i will take them seriously.

what im trying to say worded poorly is: without a plausible solution, you cant change.


hence they are wasting their time, they have shown no understanding of economics as well or understanding of how corporate america works. They have no idea what they are doing.

its just young vs old and rich vs poor, its always been this way, always will.
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Old 10-07-2011, 08:16 PM   #67
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Originally Posted by due 07
The Wallstreet protests seem to be sort of the hub, and from what I've seen most everyone is an active participant.

To be fair, it's already gotten violent for the protesters. But I agree, I sincerely hope the protesters don't get violent; it'd be terrible for all parties involved.


As do I as well. But It's easy to manipulate their cause and turn it into a violent means of protest/witch hunt for the super-wealthy.

From the OccupyBoston Facebook page
"The time has come to deploy this emerging stratagem against the greatest corrupter of our democracy: Wall Street, the financial Gomorrah of America. Our comrades have already begun the occupation of Wall St, now its our turn to occupy the financial districts in Boston. Lets make Boston the cradle of revolution it once was.
It's time for DEMOCRACY NOT CORPORATOCRACY!" (referencing the original Tea Party in Boston and how they battled Britain)

It's easy to see how someone who gets a mic in his hand before a large protest and put their own spin on the idea and turn it into a riot.
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Old 10-07-2011, 08:17 PM   #68
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Originally Posted by Dirge Humani
Yeah, because I wasn't sitting there as they happened, talking to at least 8 English people, and an American who happened to be vacationing in England that week.

http://www.blurtit.com/var/question...s-good-comeback

Last edited by behind_you : 10-07-2011 at 08:19 PM.
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Old 10-07-2011, 08:19 PM   #69
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Originally Posted by iwannabesedated
You don't really understand the point of the protest. The protest isn't for handouts, people want to stand up on their own, but they can't because there's no solid ground on which to stand.

They can't get a better education because they have no money.
They can't get more money because there are no jobs. 55% of young people are unemployed, and that's because the jobs they used to get with no trouble (Fast food, etc) they now have to compete with adults to get.
There are no jobs because of outsourcing and the fact that companies would rather layoff 50 people to give their CEO a bonus.
Companies are allowed to do this because they own politicians.


There's a difference when you're 25 and you can't get a job despite the fact that you have a college degree and are qualified for your field of choice then kids who are 18-24 that don't wanna do minimum wage jobs (and if they do they want more pay) make a career of themselves, or don't wanna go to college.

And there are jobs out there, they may be shitty but there are jobs if you're competitive and persistent. There is plenty of oppurtunites to make a career out of high school despite the lack of jobs you just have to be competitive and get off your ass.

(thank ****ing god I'm not an english major, i suck teh ass at grammar)
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Old 10-07-2011, 08:19 PM   #70
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Originally Posted by behind_you
*chart*

I'm for the "Right after you said something that made no sense".

made sense to me.

as the riots were happening he was talking with 8 people from britain and a dude on holiday in the UK.

whether that's a decent comeback is a different matter.
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Old 10-07-2011, 08:19 PM   #71
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Originally Posted by JimmyBanks6
Nowhere did i change my view on them being lazy hipsters, lrn2read.

Oh lord. I don't just mean the "lazy hipsters" part. I've been talking about their motives for "rioting" (they're actually protesting, but I'm trying to use your vernacular here).
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Originally Posted by behind_you
UK Riots were cause by opportunists. They were peacefully protesting the shooting of a man and the opportunists saw this as a chance to loot and steal. What, you think that the Americans have more sense than that? It takes one to turn a peaceful protest into utter chaos.

So, in other words, you're not basing your prediction of riots and looting off of anything other than "It's happened before after peaceful protests"?
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Originally Posted by Zoot Allures
If anything people need to fight back though, the police are just rounding thousands of them up and kettling them on brooklyn bridge as that article you posted said. This can't go on, how much longer will people be treated like sheep?

Honestly, I think putting up with the police in this situation would be best. It's the most immediately obvious form of oppression by the state, so it's good to have that kind of publicity. I wouldn't be too surprised if a few people did start fighting back, though.
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Old 10-07-2011, 08:21 PM   #72
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Originally Posted by due 07
Oh lord. I don't just mean the "lazy hipsters" part. I've been talking about their motives for "rioting" (they're actually protesting, but I'm trying to use your vernacular here).

OMG you are daft.

i stopped using the word riot on the first fvcking page. you really just find one thing you think is valid and keep repeating it.


also congrats on ignoring the rest of the post. insightful.
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Old 10-07-2011, 08:21 PM   #73
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Originally Posted by Lemoninfluence
made sense to me.

as the riots were happening he was talking with 8 people from britain and a dude on holiday in the UK.

whether that's a decent comeback is a different matter.


I edited out the last part. Not a good comeback tho
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Old 10-07-2011, 08:23 PM   #74
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Originally Posted by Zoot Allures
If anything people need to fight back though, the police are just rounding thousands of them up and kettling them on brooklyn bridge as that article you posted said. This can't go on, how much longer will people be treated like sheep?



No they should not, very little positive will come of this. As far protesting they're handling it maturely by not getting violent. Avoid violent conflict at all cost. If you act in a peaceful manner and your rights are exploited by police, it's almost guranteed a news outlet will have footage of it or cover it.
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Old 10-07-2011, 08:29 PM   #75
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Originally Posted by Zoot Allures
If anything people need to fight back though

So the cops have an excuse to shut the whole thing down and Fox News have ample vilification fodder.
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Old 10-07-2011, 08:31 PM   #76
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Originally Posted by due 07
Oh lord. I don't just mean the "lazy hipsters" part. I've been talking about their motives for "rioting" (they're actually protesting, but I'm trying to use your vernacular here).

So, in other words, you're not basing your prediction of riots and looting off of anything other than "It's happened before after peaceful protests"?

Honestly, I think putting up with the police in this situation would be best. It's the most immediately obvious form of oppression by the state, so it's good to have that kind of publicity. I wouldn't be too surprised if a few people did start fighting back, though.

Well i hope the protests build in numbers, there will come a point when the police will be so outnumbered it will be obviously foolish to try anything, but then again i wouldn't be surprised if it led to just shooting people on sight if it got really out of hand..

Quote:
Originally Posted by ErikLensherr
So the cops have an excuse to shut the whole thing down and Fox News have ample vilification fodder.

I don't know whats going on at ground level but the police are usually the ones to start being violent, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agent_provocateur
As seen at the student protests over here.
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Old 10-07-2011, 08:32 PM   #77
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Originally Posted by vicarious46

No they should not, very little positive will come of this. As far protesting they're handling it maturely by not getting violent. Avoid violent conflict at all cost. If you act in a peaceful manner and your rights are exploited by police, it's almost guranteed a news outlet will have footage of it or cover it.


When you look at it, violence is inevitable. All it takes is one asshole, as I previously stated.
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Old 10-07-2011, 08:35 PM   #78
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Originally Posted by vicarious46
There's a difference when you're 25 and you can't get a job despite the fact that you have a college degree and are qualified for your field of choice then kids who are 18-24 that don't wanna do minimum wage jobs (and if they do they want more pay) make a career of themselves, or don't wanna go to college.

And there are jobs out there, they may be shitty but there are jobs if you're competitive and persistent. There is plenty of oppurtunites to make a career out of high school despite the lack of jobs you just have to be competitive and get off your ass.

(thank ****ing god I'm not an english major, i suck teh ass at grammar)


No, there aren't. I'm 19, I've put in 40 applications and haven't gotten as much as an interview. I'd take minimum wage, I'd take manual labor at this point.

Edit: And every job I've applied for, 30 year olds who have had 3 previous jobs are applying with me. I have no shot, I've never had a job before.

Last edited by iwannabesedated : 10-07-2011 at 08:37 PM.
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Old 10-07-2011, 08:36 PM   #79
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When you look at it, violence is inevitable. All it takes is one asshole, as I previously stated.


Yeah I said the same thing too, all you need is one person to put their own interpretation on the movement and preach it before a bunch of pissed off protesters and you have a very ugly scene.

But that doesn't mean I advocate it or encourage it as Zoots is right now, at all costs I would rather see the protest go forth in a peaceful manner even though I don't support their demand(s).

Quote:
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No, there aren't. I'm 19, I've put in 40 applications and haven't gotten as much as an interview. I'd take minimum wage, I'd take manual labor at this point.


I'm 19 as well, I've had a job for 3 years though, because I was connected through a friend. I've been offered a job at a local pizza shop, because I went there often. I did a Construction Tech program throughought high school which can help me get a job as a field laborer on a construction site. And I briefly worked at a local hospital transporting linen.

A huge factor in finding jobs is your connections. You have to get your name out there and make it known that you'll ****ing do almost anything for work/money. Calling jobs back is always good as well because it shows that you're serious about working for them.

There are of jobs and there's plenty competition, finding jobs are hard but possible.

But it's the ****ers who don't wanna go out and find minimum wage jobs, get an education, or bitch that working at Tedeschis, which requires minimum mental, social and physical skill, should pay them more then minimum wage. And there's plenty of them around in this movement
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Old 10-07-2011, 08:38 PM   #80
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Originally Posted by vicarious46
Yeah I said the same thing too, all you need is one person to put their own interpretation on the movement and preach it before a bunch of pissed off protesters and you have a very ugly scene.

But that doesn't mean I advocate it or encourage it as Zoots is right now, at all costs I would rather see the protest go forth in a peaceful manner even though I don't support their demand(s).

I support protesters to defend themselves from police violence is what i meant. There is no need for any violence for this to be an effective protest, a mass occupation is a great idea.
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