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Old 04-17-2015, 04:33 PM   #1
venndi88
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30W vs 120W amplifier loudness/volume difeerence

Hi!

I have 30W marshall combo (MG30dfx) and want to know how much is louder one 120W (peavey 5150 with 2x12 box/70W+70W) amp?
For exemple when the marshall MG30dfx is on 2/10 volume, then this loudnes is how much at 5150's volume knob, ?/10?
Can help me someone, how can I this calculate?
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Old 04-17-2015, 04:45 PM   #2
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Wattage doesn't relate to volume in the way many people think. A 100watt amp is only twice as loud as a 10watt amp. What the wattage on an amp really tells you is it's clean headroom (before the power amp starts to break up and distort your sound).

Also, the MG and 6505 will probably not use the same volume pots and will not have the same "sweep" through their volumes. It might be hard to exactly answer you question, but the 5150 is a very loud amp, it will be much louder than your MG. It does have a master volume however, so you can play it quietly if you need.
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Old 04-17-2015, 04:51 PM   #3
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It's not easy or practical to calculate, the Pre and Post or Gain/Volume controls interact too much and are not linear so you can't just multiply one setting to get the setting on the other. On top of that things like speaker sensitivity make a big difference. One 70 watt speaker can be twice as loud as another.

The Peavey is a lot louder than the Marshall. We don't experience volume in very good delineations (what does "twice as loud" sound like?) so unfortunately "a lot louder" is about all we can say.
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Old 04-17-2015, 04:53 PM   #4
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When so much factors are different, you simply can't get an answer 'cause there's no answer.

Cab is different, speakers are different, master volume pot tapers are different and guitar power amp ratings are made up.

Also the 5150 does have a master volume indeed.
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Old 04-17-2015, 06:30 PM   #5
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Okay thanks. Actually I want to know, that the 5150 is also usable for practicing/home recording, or just too loud for that? I use my marshall mostly at 1.5-2 volume...
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Old 04-17-2015, 07:04 PM   #6
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All you need to know is that the 5150 will blow the MG off the stage without breaking a sweat, even if the MG is cranked. They're not even in the same ballpark. That said, a 5150 can sound good at lower volumes too.
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Old 04-17-2015, 08:31 PM   #7
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^^ Yup pretty much that. The peavey will be perfectly usable at lower volumes. Even if you have to play it with the master volume like a hair width away from cutting the output entirely, it'll still sound good, especially compared to your mg. And yes, when it's cranked, it will be far, far louder and more powerful sounding than the mg could ever be.
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Old 04-17-2015, 08:59 PM   #8
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Assuming they are running through the exact same speakers at the same impedance setting (which they are not), this gives you a rough idea of watts vs volume. The Peavey would be 6db louder.
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Old Yesterday, 12:25 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spambot_2
When so much factors are different, you simply can't get an answer 'cause there's no answer.

Cab is different, speakers are different, master volume pot tapers are different and guitar power amp ratings are made up.

Also the 5150 does have a master volume indeed.


So I'm looking at my 6505 right now, which is the exact same amp as a 5150, and I don't have a master volume.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mmolteratx
You're honestly telling me that a 100W amp can put out 150dB and you use it like that? That's ten times the SPL that results in instant, severe pain you moron.
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Old Yesterday, 12:42 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BV-95
So I'm looking at my 6505 right now, which is the exact same amp as a 5150, and I don't have a master volume.


volume knob. you have a seperate gain knob correct? some amps have a 3rd kob that can be called master volume. but if you have more than one volume knob then there is a master volume.
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Old Yesterday, 01:52 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BV-95
So I'm looking at my 6505 right now, which is the exact same amp as a 5150, and I don't have a master volume.


post gain is your master. its not a global master though. you have one on each channel.
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Old Yesterday, 02:08 AM   #12
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Ah, I misunderstood what was meant by master volume. I thought master volume exclusively meant a volume knob that affects all channels across the board of an amp.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mmolteratx
You're honestly telling me that a 100W amp can put out 150dB and you use it like that? That's ten times the SPL that results in instant, severe pain you moron.
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Old Yesterday, 02:29 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BV-95
Ah, I misunderstood what was meant by master volume. I thought master volume exclusively meant a volume knob that affects all channels across the board of an amp.


no big deal. i did too a long time ago. some amps have channel masters AND global masters, for example my MKIV.

its kind of a slippery phrase though.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cathbard
See what I mean by, "they demonised it"? Tim's attitude is typical of what they did to everybody. The media drove that sort of Disney shit into everybody's brain. Only old farts like me missed it in our formative years.
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Old Yesterday, 10:13 AM   #14
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this comes up a lot and its a huge misconception.

the type of sweep or pot on the volume knob can make a huge difference. some amps have a real bad, 1 to 10 scenario where you are nothing, and then all the sudden LOUD, some have a very slow gradual sweep. thats just a design thing.

CAB and SPEAKERS have a HUGE affect on percieved loudness. each speaker itself can vary 3-5 DB at 1 watt of power. 3-5 is a big jump. thats probably the same jump as a 10 vs 100 watt amp. and it is exponentially increased when you multiply wattage meaning

speaker at 95 SPL

1 watt = 95
2= 98
4 watts = 101
8 watts = 104

speaker at 103 SPL

1 watt = 103
2 = 106
4 = 109
8 = 111

see the difference? that not even factoring in the amp. thats just speaker loudness.

if you have a 4x12 with eminence wizards, holy cow man, it doesnt matter what amp you have your getting the neighbors called on you.


i went through an experimnent a while back getting al lthese amps with power scaling. DV Mark down to 0.5 watts. engaters down to 1 watt. its all garbage. they are loud. it makes very little difference of the wattage.

what is affected is player response, perception of "power" or "thump", clean headroom, natural breakup. those things.

its like, a 50CC dirty bike and a 250 CC dirty bike with both go 50 MPH (or can). but how do you think they will be different both going 50 mph? or like, both will go over the track, but how do you think they will differ accelrating over a jump? they act and respond way differently.

design can be a factor. amps work differently, just like your average trail dirty bike is NOTHING...NOTHING like a finely tubed racing bike. just like your average amp out of guitar center is NOTHING like a custom, hand built, boutique amp.
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Old Yesterday, 07:07 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by evmac
A 100watt amp is only twice as loud as a 10watt amp.


"Only" twice as loud? 10dB is a lot. Twice as loud is quite a bit louder.

But yeah, TS, it's complicated. It has to do with a lot of things. Most likely you won't be able to turn the 5150 past 1/10 in your bedroom. Volume controls don't work the same way on all amps. On many amps the volume jump from 1/10 to 2/10 is a lot bigger than from 2/10 to 3/10.

Also, low volume performance is not about the amp's wattage. Many powerful amps work just fine at bedroom levels.

It has a lot to do with speakers. Your Marshall most likely has a pretty inefficient speaker, and I'm sure the stock speaker on a 5150 is more efficient. If you played the Marshall through the same speaker as the 5150, there would be less difference between them.
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Old Yesterday, 07:25 PM   #16
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Also worth noting because I didn't see it mentioned:

The 5150/6505 in particular has a "Dead zone" on the post gain, where it is incredibly muddy up until about 1 on the post gain. If you need to run it lower than that, just put some kind of volume control in the loop, and turn the volume down. This will let you turn the post gain up higher to compensate while still being the same volume as if it were at 0.5 or w/e. Used that trick with my 5150, JSX & 6505, it's fantastic for getting the power amp working at talking volumes.
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Old Yesterday, 08:14 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MaggaraMarine
"Only" twice as loud? 10dB is a lot. Twice as loud is quite a bit louder.


Yeah, but it's not 10x as loud, which is what a lot of people tend to think.
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Old Today, 05:52 AM   #18
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^ Yeah, of course.
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Old Today, 07:28 AM   #19
venndi88
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Thanks a lot!

What is the minimum room size for 5150 and for a 2x12 mesa rectifier?
Which attenuator recommend you? - I found this:
http://www.ebay.de/itm/Power-Soak-f...=item43dadd73ef
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