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Old 01-26-2012, 04:32 AM   #81
vampirelazarus
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Originally Posted by Life Is Brutal
I think I'm going to make myself write at least 12 bars of something a day. Hopefully the writing process will become easier.


Me too, sounds like a fantastic idea... but i only play one instrument.... Hooray bass clef!

I should learn the piano... im going to need to for school anyways....
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Old 01-31-2012, 01:40 PM   #82
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Hey Xiaoxi, sorry I didn't reply to your reply

Do you have a Skype or something? I have some questions about note choice, how to modulate, and some other stuff having to do with fugues and writing them.

I'm actually gonna start over right now and write a new one. We'll see how that goes.
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Old 01-31-2012, 01:42 PM   #83
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Sure thing. I sent you a PM.

Not available to talk right now though. At school/work.
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Old 01-31-2012, 01:57 PM   #84
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Would the first few bars of my canon (previous page) make a good starting point for my fugue?
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Old 02-01-2012, 05:14 AM   #85
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Sorry guys, will get to ALL of your questions soon. Been shamefully slothy the last week or so.

Also, I moved everyone's stuff to a new SoundCloud account. Let me know if the links for my suggestion for yours isn't working.
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Old 02-01-2012, 08:45 PM   #86
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Ignore this post everybody. I put up a better one


Alright, so I've been obsessively checking this thread since it's inception and, hopefully, the mass of musical knowledge has rubbed off on me. So, here is my fugal attempt.

the score
http://musescore.com/user/21980/scores/37506#

The sound
http://soundcloud.com/tracks/search?q=duaneclapdrix

My subject is a little...odd, but I think it works. I didn't really know what to do for an exposition so I just restated my theme in a couple of different keys and called it a day.
I also noticed to late that I have some spacing issues during the fourth entrance of my subject. I don't find it aurally displeasing though so...eh

So, (fugue) Doctor! (fugue) Doctor! Give me the news! Do I have a case of a poorly written fugue?
But seriously, I've found this thread very helpful. This is miles better than any of my other attempted fugues. Thanks for taking the time to do this Xiaoxi.

I noticed some glaring (in retrospect) parallel 5ths/octaves in m. 8, 9 and 10 that I will now correct. I'm off to search for more Then I suppose I'll upload the (hopefully fixed) version

Last edited by Duaneclapdrix : 03-16-2012 at 10:57 PM.
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Old 02-04-2012, 02:35 AM   #87
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mrkeka:

Good attempt. I like that it's mostly free of parallel 5ths and octaves, and I can tell you were careful about that. However, a lot of the harmonies in here, while essentially triadic, are very weak in their coherence. This is mostly due to some weak voiceleading and rhythmic placement of harmonies. I suggest slowing things down and really get a sense of what sounds off. I didn't have time to look at every detail, but I can easily pick out some stuff in the 3rd system:

-m.10: this bar is full of weak voiceleading. If we just look at the soprano against bass, you have a D against G, which is then flipped around intervallically, and then an octave, 9th, and 5th (G, C#). Basically, in this bar we never hear any sort of resolution to 3rds or 6ths. All of those intervals need to occur through careful voiceleading to and from a 3rd/6th, one at a time, not an entire bar without this pair to ground us. There are all sorts of these issues throughout this fugue.
-m.11: Soprano and alto has parallel 5th. On the half note D, the soprano ends up with A, and then they both meet at E B at m.12. Be careful of these discrete errors.
-m.7: G octaves then D unison, essentially the same kind of error as a parallel octave.

The big issue is that your subject isn't restated faithfully. When we get to the answer in m.3, you start altering things both rhythmically and tonally, such as the A - F - G, which should be G F G, or the added 8th note to the half note C#, which should then jump to G, not A. You also seem to lack a countersubject, which in some cases is fine, but for the purpose of study, you should try to restate it faithfully with the subject so that it sounds cohesive to what you did before and also eliminates some work out of your way.

I see that you start m.10 with an imitative figure derived from the subject in the soprano. However, this is very weak because you resort to altering a lot of tones from the original pattern, so that sense imitation gets lost. This would be a good time to isolate a cellular motif established in the exposition and use it in a sequence, and have everything be consistent. Otherwise, it just sounds like free counterpoint that doesn't really relate to what you've been trying to say in the first 9 bars.

Now that I have my full fugue analysis up, study it carefully and look at the labels carefully to see how I approach an episode. You'll notice that there is always a point of reference to what I already established, and most of the time things are sequential.


My suggestions:
-I added a trill to fill out the sound of the half note.
-I ended on the start of the first episode. Continue that momentum.

http://soundcloud.com/xwanhosting/mrkeka-fugue

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Last edited by Xiaoxi : 02-04-2012 at 02:36 AM.
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Old 02-04-2012, 04:32 AM   #88
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griff:

Your canon is free of most technical errors, but sometimes the harmony seems a little ambiguous, or at least it doesn't lead into the next one convincingly. I can't really spend an hour zeroing in on why, but like I've said to some other people in here, slow it down and really listen to the voice leading. I've played parts of this very slowly and a lot of the time it's like there are a lot of notes and counterpoint but they aren't leading the harmony anywhere.

Because you're the most up to speed on counterpoint, I gotta be a little stricter. You have a lot of unapproached 7ths, which throw things off. Could be contributing to the weak harmony. There are also lots of accented 4ths/5ths. Every once in a while, that's ok. But there a lot here and they go by pretty fast, so that also obscures things a little.

I suggest you take a real close look at Bach's invention no. 2 in C minor, which is also a canon. Everything you need to know about how to handle the intervals and lead the harmony is in there.

As for using the head as a fugue subject, I suggest this:

http://soundcloud.com/xwanhosting/griffrg7321-fugue

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Old 02-09-2012, 05:31 PM   #89
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Get off your lazy asses!!
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Old 02-09-2012, 11:46 PM   #90
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On it bitch
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Old 02-10-2012, 02:00 AM   #91
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Wow, I wished I had a clue on how to make a fugue.
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Old 02-10-2012, 07:19 AM   #92
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Thanks Xiaoxi!
I'll get back on studying the things you suggested. Like I said, I haven't studied this sort of thing in a few years, so I remembered avoiding parallel fifths and octaves, but the resolving to 3rds and 6ths completely skipped my mind... lol... and even the parallel and hidden octaves and fifths still occured

I don't know when I'll have the free time to do it, but I'll definetely analyze your example and give this another shot
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Old 02-21-2012, 01:16 AM   #93
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I did not want this thread to disappear into the ether of MT because I've found it so helpful. So I now deem it (hopefully) resurrected* because I have an exposition and I'd like to see how I did. I would also really enjoy some of your thoughts on writing a development and on what makes a good theme. For example, you dicontinued your first fugue because you said the subject would cause problems harmony-wise later on. I would really like to know why.

teh fugue: http://musescore.com/user/21980/scores/39334#

*Of course, if you feel like you've already spent enough of your free time answering newb fugue questions then I understand. I'm just happy you spent any time answering the previous questions. Like I said, I've found this thread very helpful.

EDIT: I finished it. Here's the whole thing
http://musescore.com/user/21980/scores/41362#

I also tried my hand at a prelude. You can find it (If you so desire) in the link to the set under the "This score appears in" middle right on the page.

Last edited by Duaneclapdrix : 03-16-2012 at 11:02 PM.
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Old 02-21-2012, 01:23 AM   #94
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Thanks for bumping this. I just joined, but would definitely like to get into this. In college we never studied species counterpoint, but I was a boss at 4-part harmony which is essentially a watered down more harmonically-driven version of similar concepts.

I'd love to give this a try, been wanting to write a fugue forever...
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Old 03-12-2012, 09:28 AM   #95
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Here's try No. 2 at a Fugue! I got bored one restless night and decided this was my way of relieving that. I actually had a little bit of inspiration and, for what it's worth, I like what I have. I don't, however, feel it's a complete fugue. But I'll leave that up to Xiaoxi...

Let me know what you think

Fugue in C Minor



I'm also not sure where to go with it, as everything is basically "free" at this point. I was thinking to introduce the bass voice, drop the alto and tenor, and reinstate the original theme in the key this snippet ended in, ad then go back to the original key eventually with all 4-voices doing a kind of "theme and variation" with the exposition.
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Old 05-31-2012, 02:08 PM   #96
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Hi everyone, here's the latest fugue that I've composed. My first attempt at writing one dates exactly two years, but I've only started to studied Bach's & Pachelbel's fugue last year. I always use Guitar Pro for composing stuff, so the instrument I used for this piece is a jazz guitar. I can say that my biggest problem is that I always put too many notes for nothing. My free parts are always a bit sloppy also, and I get scrambled with more than two voices. Anyway, here's the link for the mp3 rendering of my work:

http://soundcloud.com/atompacman/fugue-in-e-minor

http://www.ultimate-guitar.com/foru...id=105478&stc=1

For a bigger version of the sheet:
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-image...ueineminor.png/
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Old 02-25-2013, 05:07 PM   #97
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Wow this thread was super insightful and I'm going to take a crack at my own later
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Old 03-07-2013, 07:07 AM   #98
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Hey Xiaoxi. Could you look at my fugue If you find the time? It's my first one so be gentle Subject is based on some guy's lesson on the internet.

It starts of in Dm, modulating to dominant, back and forth with 'an attempt' to modulate to E minor.

I know there's a few 5th and 8th intervals in there, but tried to keep them balanced.

Let me know what you think, I'd appreciate it.

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Old 03-10-2013, 02:28 AM   #99
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Hey deHufter, been really busy for the last few weeks. I'll take a closer look soon.

But just at first glance, you have a lot of crossing of voices between middle (alto/tenor) and bass, which obscure the polyphony. Especially glaring is in m. 6 with the Bb in the bass, against a B natural in the alto.

The lines themselves can also be stronger. For example, at the beginning when the alto leads the way for the soprano to come in, it's running up to an A (D, E, F#, G# ->), but then jumps down awkwardly to middle C.

Keep in mind that effective counterpoint is not just about satisfying "correct" intervals between voices at meeting points, like you're trying hard to maintain here. Just as important is that they should individually be beautiful melodies.

You should try singing these lines. I think it will reveal how awkward they can get. If they're hard/awkward to sing, chances are they aren't working in the actual context either.

I'll try to put up a revision for you soon. It's a nice subject.
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Old 03-10-2013, 08:23 AM   #100
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Xiaoxi
The lines themselves can also be stronger. For example, at the beginning when the alto leads the way for the soprano to come in, it's running up to an A (D, E, F#, G# ->), but then jumps down awkwardly to middle C.


Yeah, first I didn't have that little run toward A minor, but decided to put it in there.
The countersubject I had in mind started on the C. Thought I could bypass this problem cause the highest voice is 'taking over' that A. So my ears don't really hate that skip, but for a trained ear, I can imagine it sounds off.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xiaoxi
Keep in mind that effective counterpoint is not just about satisfying "correct" intervals between voices at meeting points, like you're trying hard to maintain here. Just as important is that they should individually be beautiful melodies.


Think the subject and countersubject are rather quite strong melodies without crossing. I completely agree that countersubject 2 is a bit....well...forced upon the listener. Doesn't seem that natural. Then the crossing starts when trying to modulate to E minor.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xiaoxi
I'll try to put up a revision for you soon. It's a nice subject.


Thanks so much. I'm curious how you would polish these basic melodies. Very educative.
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