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Old 01-17-2012, 12:23 PM   #41
ChemicalFire
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Much better, but you really need to work more on that bass. It's far too prominent and boomey.
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Old 01-17-2012, 12:42 PM   #42
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Much better, but you really need to work more on that bass. It's far too prominent and boomey.

Yeah, I noticed it too. I've tried fiddling around with EQ and compressors and the TSE BOD settings and everything. I just can't make it sit into the mix properly
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Old 01-17-2012, 01:50 PM   #43
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Here's how I do mine, I don't have time to record anything yet but I'm thinking of doing a set of very simple video tutorials in the future so some of the more abstract things can be made apparent. I'm still a beginner myself but I feel I've collected quite a bit of useful data that could help others.

And yes the pics are too small to see. I could of made them bigger, but this way I'm hoping you'll use your ears to get what sounds good instead of just copying my settings.

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Old 01-18-2012, 10:10 PM   #44
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Hey guys, I'm just after some quick mixing advice. One listen through and your first impressions/suggestions would be awesome, but feel free to be more in depth if the mood takes you!

I've recorded a cover of Paramore's That's What You Get, which can be heard here:
http://soundcloud.com/tomjohnstonem...ts-what-you-get

It's in the early stages at the moment, it's only a rough mix and it's currently built around the the original track's drums, for reasons that aren't really worth explaining. I also haven't removed unwanted noise yet, hence the rough start.

Everything was recorded in the studio at my uni in Pro Tools on a 24 channel desk. The mics/gear I used are below:

All vocals: One AKG C 414. One track for lead and one for backing. The 'shouty' bit at the end of the bridge was recorded with 3 of us stood around one 414 in the middle of the room, and we combined 4 separate takes, then added a load of reverb.
Bass: Fender Mike Dirnt Precision Bass, into Behringer 10 band bass EQ pedal, DI'd to desk.
All guitars: Fender Baja Telecaster via Fender Twin Reverb (300 watt) and Boss OD 1. Wah sound achieved via clean channel on amp and Dunlop Cry Baby. Miked with 2 SM57s (one into each cone) and 2 AKG 414s further back.

I haven't yet had chance to do much mixing, but it's really my weak point. So I was wondering if anyone could offer some tips on how to get this sounding more 'commercial'. In particular the lead guitar in the choruses and the overdriven rhythm are my primary concerns, but I'm not entirely sure what to do to improve them. There are a total of 18 guitar tracks here due to the quadruple miking technique, so I've done my best to pan them for a bit of space.

It just needs to sound more... alive, I think.

So yeah, any help would be very much appreciated, and I'm happy to C4C if anyone has any songs they'd like me to crit.

Thanks in advance
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Old 01-18-2012, 10:27 PM   #45
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I think the first thing that needs doing is teaching that bass player how to play in time...
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Old 01-18-2012, 10:34 PM   #46
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Originally Posted by TJ1991
Hey guys, I'm just after some quick mixing advice. One listen through and your first impressions/suggestions would be awesome, but feel free to be more in depth if the mood takes you!

I've recorded a cover of Paramore's That's What You Get, which can be heard here:
http://soundcloud.com/tomjohnstonem...ts-what-you-get

It's in the early stages at the moment, it's only a rough mix and it's currently built around the the original track's drums, for reasons that aren't really worth explaining. I also haven't removed unwanted noise yet, hence the rough start.

Everything was recorded in the studio at my uni in Pro Tools on a 24 channel desk. The mics/gear I used are below:

All vocals: One AKG C 414. One track for lead and one for backing. The 'shouty' bit at the end of the bridge was recorded with 3 of us stood around one 414 in the middle of the room, and we combined 4 separate takes, then added a load of reverb.
Bass: Fender Mike Dirnt Precision Bass, into Behringer 10 band bass EQ pedal, DI'd to desk.
All guitars: Fender Baja Telecaster via Fender Twin Reverb (300 watt) and Boss OD 1. Wah sound achieved via clean channel on amp and Dunlop Cry Baby. Miked with 2 SM57s (one into each cone) and 2 AKG 414s further back.

I haven't yet had chance to do much mixing, but it's really my weak point. So I was wondering if anyone could offer some tips on how to get this sounding more 'commercial'. In particular the lead guitar in the choruses and the overdriven rhythm are my primary concerns, but I'm not entirely sure what to do to improve them. There are a total of 18 guitar tracks here due to the quadruple miking technique, so I've done my best to pan them for a bit of space.

It just needs to sound more... alive, I think.

So yeah, any help would be very much appreciated, and I'm happy to C4C if anyone has any songs they'd like me to crit.

Thanks in advance



Sounds like everything is running up center, so it sounds very cluttered, and everything is clashing with each other, especially the guitar and bass. And what sounds like a synth..sound odd. The vocals sound excellent though. Try double tracking the guitars, high pass them at 150hz, low pass at 10,000 hz to make room for the vocals and lead guitar.

The guitars also sound kinda hollow, I'd recommend changing up your mic position, and just use one mic, maybe a 45 degree 3 inches from the cone.
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Old 01-18-2012, 10:37 PM   #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChemicalFire
I think the first thing that needs doing is teaching that bass player how to play in time...


That'd be me. I know the verses could be better, but the syncopation is really weird given that the time signature is 3/4 but the drums have a 4/4 feel. I'm not sure how familiar you are with the original, but it's almost identical, to be fair.
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Old 01-18-2012, 10:45 PM   #48
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Originally Posted by ethan_hanus
Sounds like everything is running up center, so it sounds very cluttered, and everything is clashing with each other, especially the guitar and bass. And what sounds like a synth..sound odd. The vocals sound excellent though. Try double tracking the guitars, high pass them at 150hz, low pass at 10,000 hz to make room for the vocals and lead guitar.

The guitars also sound kinda hollow, I'd recommend changing up your mic position, and just use one mic, maybe a 45 degree 3 inches from the cone.


Thanks for the feedback! Do you think there are too many guitar tracks in there? I know 4 mics is probably excessive but I just wanted to keep my options open, I'll probably take some out whether I rerecord or not. I'll give everything else a go tomorrow.

There isn't a synth in there though, I'm guessing you mean the high bit in the chorus? That's guitar with loads of reverb added after recording, and is one of my primary concerns, because... well yeah, it sounds weird. A mic positioning issue, possibly?
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Old 01-18-2012, 10:50 PM   #49
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Originally Posted by TJ1991
Thanks for the feedback! Do you think there are too many guitar tracks in there? I know 4 mics is probably excessive but I just wanted to keep my options open, I'll probably take some out whether I rerecord or not. I'll give everything else a go tomorrow.

There isn't a synth in there though, I'm guessing you mean the high bit in the chorus? That's guitar with loads of reverb added after recording, and is one of my primary concerns, because... well yeah, it sounds weird. A mic positioning issue, possibly?


I only hear one guitar. Do you know what double tracking is? You record two guitar tracks in sync with the song, and pan each separate track in opposite directions to create a stereo field. It really makes them pop, and opens up the center of the track for other things such as drum, bass, vocals, lead.

Idk about a mic issue, more like a clarity issue.
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Old 01-18-2012, 10:50 PM   #50
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Originally Posted by TJ1991
That'd be me. I know the verses could be better, but the syncopation is really weird given that the time signature is 3/4 but the drums have a 4/4 feel. I'm not sure how familiar you are with the original, but it's almost identical, to be fair.


I'm only somewhat familiar, went through about a week of liking them then realised they bored me senseless. If that really is how it's written... well that's just terrible xD
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Old 01-18-2012, 10:57 PM   #51
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Originally Posted by ethan_hanus
I only hear one guitar. Do you know what double tracking is? You record two guitar tracks in sync with the song, and pan each separate track in opposite directions to create a stereo field. It really makes them pop, and opens up the center of the track for other things such as drum, bass, vocals, lead.

Idk about a mic issue, more like a clarity issue.

Yeah, I've done double tracking a couple of times before, but I was experimenting with this one. I recorded each guitar part once (overdriven rhythm, the lead part in the chorus, the clean palm muting in the verse, the wah in the verse and the intro riff) with 2 SM57s and 2 C414s, then panned the 414s hard left and hard right and the 57s soft left and soft right. Considering what you've said I'm guessing a lot of the problem is to do with the panning on the 57s, since they're filling the space in the middle when I assume they shouldn't. But yeah, you're absolutely right, there's only one guitar - I thought I could get away with one rather than two since I was opening it up with the panning, but it seems not!

Is it worth trying to EQ the high bit to improve the clarity, or should I just go for a retake?


Quote:
Originally Posted by ChemicalFire
I'm only somewhat familiar, went through about a week of liking them then realised they bored me senseless. If that really is how it's written... well that's just terrible xD

Haha, fair enough, each to his own!
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Old 01-19-2012, 01:08 AM   #52
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Originally Posted by TJ1991
Yeah, I've done double tracking a couple of times before, but I was experimenting with this one. I recorded each guitar part once (overdriven rhythm, the lead part in the chorus, the clean palm muting in the verse, the wah in the verse and the intro riff) with 2 SM57s and 2 C414s, then panned the 414s hard left and hard right and the 57s soft left and soft right. Considering what you've said I'm guessing a lot of the problem is to do with the panning on the 57s, since they're filling the space in the middle when I assume they shouldn't. But yeah, you're absolutely right, there's only one guitar - I thought I could get away with one rather than two since I was opening it up with the panning, but it seems not!

Is it worth trying to EQ the high bit to improve the clarity, or should I just go for a retake?



Haha, fair enough, each to his own!


I would personally just rerecord everything, course I'm hard headed and do things the hard way. I usually center everything around the guitars and drums, since that's the core of the music, so once those two are pretty much solid, then I start to record everything else. If your core is solid, then everything else will just fall in place nicely with minimal EQ'ing.

Simple is always better, minimal EQ'ing, minimal compression, minimal effects, and your core sound will come together better. The better you can get the raw input signal to sound, the better everything will sound. But it's always good to experiment such as you are doing, helps you find new things to do, and learn new things.
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Old 01-19-2012, 07:39 AM   #53
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Got an SM7b today, guy who wrote this is on tour though. vocals will be a while away


http://dl.dropbox.com/u/1600418/TH/...WOOD%202012.mp3
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Old 01-19-2012, 01:03 PM   #54
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Originally Posted by seanington
Got an SM7b today, guy who wrote this is on tour though. vocals will be a while away


http://dl.dropbox.com/u/1600418/TH/...WOOD%202012.mp3



Congrats on the mic...this actually sounds really good, I'm loven the drum sound. I do feel the guitars could come forward a bit more, so when you do add vocals they aren't completely drowned out. The way you EQ'd the guitars sounds perfect for vocals to fit right in though, so maybe it will work.
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Old 01-19-2012, 01:33 PM   #55
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@ TJ1991: I agree with what the others have said, everything sounds a bit too centered and cluttered, there's not very much spread to the mix at all. Even if you had everything EQ'd perfectly to fit with each other, it would still feel cluttered, because nothing is panned correctly. I'm only listening on cheap headphones right now... but even the overhead mics sound mono, which is odd, if you used the real song's tracks for this...?

The guitars need a lot of work. They are distant and muddy, which I assume is probably because of the amp used and the condenser mics. I think you'd be better off just ditching the room mics and doing one or two tracks close-miced. Pan one hard left or right and the other to the same side, at 80%. If there's a part where you want the lead to play in the center, instead of to the opposite side of the rhythm, then track two rhythm parts, otherwise it's going to sound weird. I also don't like how you can hear the pick noises at 1:15, I'm assuming you tracked in the same room as the amp being recorded? Sounds like the room mics were picking up the picking too much, which again, would be remedied by just getting rid of them. The tone needs to be more modern british, which is going to be hard to achieve with the gear you have; I'd probably be inclined to use an amp sim over the rig you're using.
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Old 01-19-2012, 08:00 PM   #56
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@ TJ1991: I agree with what the others have said, everything sounds a bit too centered and cluttered, there's not very much spread to the mix at all. Even if you had everything EQ'd perfectly to fit with each other, it would still feel cluttered, because nothing is panned correctly. I'm only listening on cheap headphones right now... but even the overhead mics sound mono, which is odd, if you used the real song's tracks for this...?

The guitars need a lot of work. They are distant and muddy, which I assume is probably because of the amp used and the condenser mics. I think you'd be better off just ditching the room mics and doing one or two tracks close-miced. Pan one hard left or right and the other to the same side, at 80%. If there's a part where you want the lead to play in the center, instead of to the opposite side of the rhythm, then track two rhythm parts, otherwise it's going to sound weird. I also don't like how you can hear the pick noises at 1:15, I'm assuming you tracked in the same room as the amp being recorded? Sounds like the room mics were picking up the picking too much, which again, would be remedied by just getting rid of them. The tone needs to be more modern british, which is going to be hard to achieve with the gear you have; I'd probably be inclined to use an amp sim over the rig you're using.


Thanks for the feedback, much appreciated. Basically yeah, the drum track is taken from Rock Band, downloaded as a WAV and just dropped into Pro Tools, hence it sounding mono. The reason for this was purely so I can experiment with the guitars and bass before I get into the studio with my drummer next week, when I'll rerecord everything except vocals.

As for the panning in general, I can't say I know what I'm doing with it, as you can tell. I can pan a drumkit ok, and I know rhythm guitars should be hard left and right, but what happens beyond that? Vocals dead centre, I assume, but what about lead guitar and bass? Also, one thing I've come across is that, with the bass in particular, if I record in stereo and then pan equal distances left and right, it just sounds exactly the same as it would were both sides centered. Probably a noob question, but is that normal?

I've muted the condenser tracks on the guitars and without doing anything else I can see that you're right straight away. I just wanted to go for a 'big' sound, but I'll just stick to the dynamic mics and play with the reverb, I think. I was in the same room as the amp for tracking, yeah. It was difficult to get real distance from the condensers given that it's quite a small studio, combined with the sensitivity of the mics.

Thanks again for your comments
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Old 01-19-2012, 08:14 PM   #57
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Hey all -
I'm working on some mixes that i'm submitting for scholarships at McNally Smith College of Music, so i've been getting some stuff laid down and trying to get the best sound possible, seeing that i could get scholarships from a good recording, so we'll see how it goes

I'm looking for some help with this mix and get some opinions - It's a cover of "Eenie Meenie" by Justin Bieber that i recorded.

Background on whats going on with the song -
All recorded using Reaper, Into a Tascam US-1641, Lots of plugins, mostly Waves.

Master: Used an SSL Compressor lightly on all of it, plus the Waves L2 Ultramaximizer to keep the levels fairly constant.

Vocals: SM58 for all the vocal parts, each vocal has an EQ on it then a SSL Compressor. All the vocals routed to a bus with the SuperTap delay and Waves RVerb.

Piano: Used the DSK AkoustiK Keyz piano VST.

Acoustic: Ibanez Acoustic in the verses is double tracked and panned a bit each direction, then sent to a bus and has the SSLChannel, EQ'ing it and small amount of compression. Acoustic in the chorus is direct in panned a bit in one direction and then mic'ed with a SM58 (hah) and panned a bit in the other direction.

Electric: Fender Strat (bridge pickup) double tracked and panned hard left and right into Guitar Rig using a JCM800'ish tone - sent to a bus and EQ'd a bit, added like 4db @ 400

Drums / Auxillary: Drums using NI Battery 3, snare reversed and added in at the verses, reverse cymbals in there, and a reverse hihat added in parts with Waves Morphoder on it to give it that phasing-like sound. Tamborine in the choruses recorded with SM58. Side note, the drums had issues rendering so there might be a odd sounding part here or there, kinda frustrating

Granted i did mix this on Sony MDR's so its not the same as monitors i know.. i gotta get me some.
Any and all advice on the mix appreciated, thanks a bunch for listening to it

http://soundcloud.com/trevorrodrigu...cover-mix-ver-4

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Old 01-19-2012, 08:20 PM   #58
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Originally Posted by skater5thg
Hey all -
I'm working on some mixes that i'm submitting for scholarships at McNally Smith College of Music, so i've been getting some stuff laid down and trying to get the best sound possible, seeing that i could get scholarships from a good recording, so we'll see how it goes

I'm looking for some help with this mix and get some opinions - It's a cover of "Eenie Meenie" by Justin Bieber that i recorded.

Background on whats going on with the song -
All recorded using Reaper, Into a Tascam US-1641, Lots of plugins, mostly Waves.

Master: Used an SSL Compressor lightly on all of it, plus the Waves L2 Ultramaximizer to keep the levels fairly constant.

Vocals: SM58 for all the vocal parts, each vocal has an EQ on it then a SSL Compressor. All the vocals routed to a bus with the SuperTap delay and Waves RVerb.

Piano: Used the DSK AkoustiK Keyz piano VST.

Acoustic: Ibanez Acoustic in the verses is double tracked and panned a bit each direction, then sent to a bus and has the SSLChannel, EQ'ing it and small amount of compression. Acoustic in the chorus is direct in panned a bit in one direction and then mic'ed with a SM58 (hah) and panned a bit in the other direction.

Electric: Fender Strat (bridge pickup) double tracked and panned hard left and right into Guitar Rig using a JCM800'ish tone - sent to a bus and EQ'd a bit, added like 4db @ 400

Drums / Auxillary: Drums using NI Battery 3, snare reversed and added in at the verses, reverse cymbals in there, and a reverse hihat added in parts with Waves Morphoder on it to give it that phasing-like sound. Tamborine in the choruses recorded with SM58. Side note, the drums had issues rendering so there might be a odd sounding part here or there, kinda frustrating

Granted i did mix this on Sony MDR's so its not the same as monitors i know.. i gotta get me some.
Any and all advice on the mix appreciated, thanks a bunch for listening to it

http://soundcloud.com/trevorrodrigu...cover-mix-ver-4

-Trevor


Everything sounds pretty good except that acoustic...that acoustic just does not fit. Try this, since it sounds like you DI'd out of the acoustics preamp, DI out of the acoustic into the Poulin LexTac sim on the yellow channel, and that'll help bring some life to it, add some clear low end, and make it sound more full instead of thin and icepicky. Maybe add some impulses to it as well, I like using bass cab impulses for 10 inch speakers.
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Old 01-19-2012, 09:05 PM   #59
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Originally Posted by ethan_hanus
Everything sounds pretty good except that acoustic...that acoustic just does not fit. Try this, since it sounds like you DI'd out of the acoustics preamp, DI out of the acoustic into the Poulin LexTac sim on the yellow channel, and that'll help bring some life to it, add some clear low end, and make it sound more full instead of thin and icepicky. Maybe add some impulses to it as well, I like using bass cab impulses for 10 inch speakers.

+1 to this, that acoustic is so thin, it sounds fake.
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Old 01-20-2012, 02:03 PM   #60
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i'll get working on that acoustic for sure. I was debating whether the mix needed a bass guitar, i dont know? The kick and the rhythm from the piano keeps the low end fairly well handledi think..
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