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Old 01-13-2012, 07:54 AM   #1
MrCrimpshrine
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International Anarchism.

Anarchists and punk rock are usually hand in hand. So is anyone here a fellow anarchist? and if so what are your beliefs for creating a better future in an anarchist society if it were to someday happen?
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Old 01-13-2012, 08:00 AM   #2
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Never really saw the appeal of anarchy. It sounds pretty stressful
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Old 01-13-2012, 01:14 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Paddy McK
Never really saw the appeal of anarchy. It sounds pretty stressful

My opinion on ⒶⒶⒶ is the opposite. I think living in a world free of social, political, and economic domination would be sick.
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Old 01-13-2012, 01:18 PM   #4
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Originally Posted by due 07
My opinion on ⒶⒶⒶ is the opposite. I think living in a world free of social, political, and economic domination would be sick.


The issue being that human nature would take advantage of such freedoms and nothing would get accomplished. You need some form of leadership, even on a small scale to organise and stop it from becoming just a shit storm.
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Old 01-13-2012, 01:28 PM   #5
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The issue being that human nature would take advantage of such freedoms and nothing would get accomplished. You need some form of leadership, even on a small scale to organise and stop it from becoming just a shit storm.

Eh, I don't buy into the myth that anarchism=chaos and leadership=organization. Look at anarchist Spain, for example, 'cuz they were hella organized without any real hierarchical power. And lots of anarchist unions and organizations are plenty structured without all that leadership nonsense.

And I'm not completely convinced there's some immutable human nature that isn't determined by social relations and conditions. I guess anarchism (or collectivism or socialism or whatever system wherein people are in charge of their lives) is diametrically opposed to a world that alienates productivity from producers and fetishizes power, but there's no reason to say that's just the way things ought to be forever and always.

Last edited by due 07 : 01-13-2012 at 01:29 PM.
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Old 01-13-2012, 03:07 PM   #6
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To believe in Anarchy I feel like you have to have the utmost faith that all humans are good people. My personal experiences seem to have proven that this is a false notion.
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Old 01-13-2012, 03:33 PM   #7
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Old 01-13-2012, 03:45 PM   #8
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Old 01-13-2012, 03:59 PM   #9
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I just noticed (or well, it just registered with me as more than a random aesthetic choice) the E & A in "The Exit Bags" the other day. I felt lame for not recognizing it earlier.
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Old 01-13-2012, 04:03 PM   #10
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Yeah. anarchy requires faith in humanity and is basically purely idealistic. For that reason it's unrealistic and improbable to ever occur. I hate when people assume that anarchy = chaos and generalize anarchists as violent and all they wanna do is **** errybody and steal things and all that. Alot of my historical influences were proponents of some form of anarchy. I'd identify as an individual anarchist.

So it's a pipedream and is impractical. But i'm a dreamer. WOOOOOOSEXPISTOLSWOOOO
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Old 01-13-2012, 04:18 PM   #11
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Back in high school I used to listen to Crass a lot & think anarchism was rad, but I think that was more 'cuz I was an angsty teenager who hated everyone around me, as opposed to any sort of intellectual interest in politics/economics or whatever.

Nowadays my views are more myopic, and I'm more interested in doing what I want & livin' the life I want than changing society as a whole. I guess I've taken on sort of an apathetic/isolationist view to society, 'cuz I just wanna be outside of society. Sometimes I feel irresponsible becuz of that, but I think I'll come around again when I'm like a real grown up living on my own in society & stuff, as opposed to just chillin' in the comfortable womb of a college campus & my parents' haus. Y'know?

I mean as ideals go, I consider myself to be pretty leftist, although every time I go hang out in the Pit I feel like a god damn reactionary. The whole Marx is rad/God is dead groupthink those cats have going is just a turn off.

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Old 01-13-2012, 04:28 PM   #12
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I don't see anarchy as purely idealistic at all 'cuz there have been plenty of successful anarchist or anarchist-inspired societies in recent history (Ukrainian Free Territory and Anarchist Spain being the most notorious afaik) that didn't fail because of internal strife and impractical ideology, but rather they were defeated by outside forces (authoritarian socialists and fascists respectively). Granted these weren't in modern, advanced capitalist societies, but even today the EZLN-controlled areas of Mexico are holding up well, and you'd have to be a real heartless sumbitch to oppose them.

I think it'd be a little lot more difficult to make the transition today with thanks to (a) welfare states (b) ridiculously centralized private power (c) weak organized labor and (d) fanatic militarism. Even in the case of anarchist spain it took decades and decades of dissemination of ideas before anything happened, and that sort of thing is pretty much out of the question in lots of highly developed cappie countries nowadays.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that anarchy itself isn't really idealism, but actually making the transition these days is gonna be nigh on impossible, so I'm gonna sell out and vote for vaguely liberal bourgeois puppet parties. \_(ツ)_/

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Old 01-13-2012, 04:32 PM   #13
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Also, what's up with Crass doing deluxe reissues of all their albums? That's pretty much took whatever respect I still had for them on an ideological basis & flushed it down the toilet.
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Old 01-13-2012, 04:38 PM   #14
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I don't think there's a long enough example of anarchism in real society to see it as anything other than idealistic.

Of course I only have limited knowledge about the subject, so yah know.
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Old 01-13-2012, 04:54 PM   #15
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I get & sorta agree with what due's sayin' about it not being purely idealistic, but it is largely idealistic. Like, it's so far outside of traditional political discourse. Which is largely bullshit anyway. But, I mean, beyond the bullshit there's real problems in the world, and it's not like you can just dismantle the system & everything will be fine & dandy. Ideals are cool, but in the real world ya gotta do what ya gotta do, ie sell out & vote for vaguely liberal bourgeois puppet parties. \_(ツ)_/

And maybe voting doesn't change anything, but I never really got what anarchists achieve by not voting, other than being even farther removed from contemporary political discourse. And I mean, if you wanna be outside of society, more power to ya, but if you wanna change society, I think that change ought to & has to come from within. Otherwise you get lame ass shit like Soviet Russia. \_(ツ)_/
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Old 01-13-2012, 04:59 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by due 07
I don't see anarchy as purely idealistic at all 'cuz there have been plenty of successful anarchist or anarchist-inspired societies in recent history (Ukrainian Free Territory and Anarchist Spain being the most notorious afaik) that didn't fail because of internal strife and impractical ideology, but rather they were defeated by outside forces (authoritarian socialists and fascists respectively). Granted these weren't in modern, advanced capitalist societies, but even today the EZLN-controlled areas of Mexico are holding up well, and you'd have to be a real heartless sumbitch to oppose them.

I think it'd be a little lot more difficult to make the transition today with thanks to (a) welfare states (b) ridiculously centralized private power (c) weak organized labor and (d) fanatic militarism. Even in the case of anarchist spain it took decades and decades of dissemination of ideas before anything happened, and that sort of thing is pretty much out of the question in lots of highly developed cappie countries nowadays.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that anarchy itself isn't really idealism, but actually making the transition these days is gonna be nigh on impossible, so I'm gonna sell out and vote for vaguely liberal bourgeois puppet parties. \_(ツ)_/


I'd say it's definitely idealistic. It requires everybody to be 100% tolerant and willing to sacrifice their good for the good of others. That is unsustainable. But I guess it depends on what kind of anarchic society you have in mind.

Regardless, being idealistic doesn't mean that it's not worth the effort at all.

EDIT: and for the record I think of something "heavenly" when I picture an anarchic world in my head, so that's why I contend that it's incredibly idealistic.

Last edited by bradulator : 01-13-2012 at 05:07 PM.
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Old 01-13-2012, 05:13 PM   #17
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I love the idea of anarchism but I don't think human nature would let it work. I'm not that educated on anarchism, but that's just my opinion.
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Old 01-13-2012, 05:26 PM   #18
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Logic is to self behave. Just when humans are enough good to not need any higher authority to behave itself and create itself an order, then that's anarchizm. But it is also an enemy to authority. Here religion is the biggest enemy of anarchism. Just learn to behave yourself so you won't need a senior. No cops, no prime minister, no army, no weapons, no god.
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Old 01-13-2012, 05:46 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cemges
Logic is to self behave. Just when humans are enough good to not need any higher authority to behave itself and create itself an order, then that's anarchizm. But it is also an enemy to authority. Here religion is the biggest enemy of anarchism. Just learn to behave yourself so you won't need a senior. No cops, no prime minister, no army, no weapons, no god.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_anarchism

Religion is not always an enemy
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Old 01-13-2012, 05:57 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bradulator
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_anarchism

Religion is not always an enemy


Hey, I just posted that on the other page.

edit: Sorry I posted "Christian Atheism" not Christian Anarchism.

My bad.
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