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Old 01-13-2012, 06:14 PM   #21
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This is dumb.
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Old 01-13-2012, 06:32 PM   #22
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This is dumb.

Not as dumb as it'd be if it was in the Pit.
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Old 01-13-2012, 06:40 PM   #23
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Shitstorm in 5... 4...

I'm an anarchist of some kind. But I probably won't get into the discussion here unless I get really bored and am feeling particularly masochistic.
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Old 01-13-2012, 07:02 PM   #24
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Anarchy is like the worst kind of capitalism.
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Old 01-14-2012, 02:37 AM   #25
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Originally Posted by neidnarb11890
but I never really got what anarchists achieve by not voting, other than being even farther removed from contemporary political discourse.

Both on the internet and irl-world I've seen far-lefties say something along the lines of "I don't want to sustain a system by voting for capitalist parties blah blah," which I don't get, 'cuz, like, "the system" isn't sustained by voting.

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Originally Posted by bradulator
I'd say it's definitely idealistic. It requires everybody to be 100% tolerant and willing to sacrifice their good for the good of others. That is unsustainable. But I guess it depends on what kind of anarchic society you have in mind.

Regardless, being idealistic doesn't mean that it's not worth the effort at all.

EDIT: and for the record I think of something "heavenly" when I picture an anarchic world in my head, so that's why I contend that it's incredibly idealistic.

Sounds like you're thinking of Utopia. >_>

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Originally Posted by pinheadslts75
Anarchy is like the worst kind of capitalism.

I resent that an-caps even use the term "anarchist," because it totally removes the label from its historical context for some warped ideology. Their only critique of the state is that it inhibits their perceived right-to-exploit.
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Old 01-14-2012, 02:51 AM   #26
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Originally Posted by cemges
Logic is to self behave. Just when humans are enough good to not need any higher authority to behave itself and create itself an order, then that's anarchizm. But it is also an enemy to authority. Here religion is the biggest enemy of anarchism. Just learn to behave yourself so you won't need a senior. No cops, no prime minister, no army, no weapons, no god.


Never underestimate the power hungry, though. Like mentioned earlier, there are always going to be people looking to capitalize and gain power. It's inevitable, in my opinion, that there will be some form of corruption inherent in every society.
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Old 01-14-2012, 12:52 PM   #27
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I wish David was here and would answer the question: "What would Nestor Makhno do?"

I ask myself how Anarchy would work in such a complicated world or if new Anarchy-Theory would be some kind of Rousseauian back to agrarian ages.
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Old 01-14-2012, 01:30 PM   #28
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Originally Posted by blake1221
Never underestimate the power hungry, though. Like mentioned earlier, there are always going to be people looking to capitalize and gain power. It's inevitable, in my opinion, that there will be some form of corruption inherent in every society.


Well yeah, with the current situation of humans it isnt possible. And, anarchism isnt being against a managament, or government. People dont know that anarchism is more then that. It is being used wrong. Anarchism is the simple philosophical view that is against any authority that says you what to do and the things that you must do.Listening to a ****** that you don't damn care about, and idiotic common senses are another enemy of anarchism. But in fact, god is the biggest enemy of anarchism. It is the absolute point, because that god says lots of things to do to you. I mean, an anarchist think like '' why the hell i have to concern myself with that government and all those idiots, they have nothing to do with me why can't i live out of it, why the hell i have to care about idiotic people's slutty common sense and their conservative, decayed, ******ed views?'', and such people are mostly genious, well educated, and above the normal people. I mean uh, they are above the basic, illeterate population.
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Old 01-14-2012, 01:57 PM   #29
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Originally Posted by cemges
and such people are mostly genious, well educated, and above the normal people.


Iīm not an enemy of anarchism, but thatīs also the way social sciences describe islamistic terrorists.

Furthermore I donīt get (without being religious) why any form of god is an enemy of anarchism. For any anarchistic for whom it is, it shows an ignorant point of view.
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Old 01-14-2012, 02:12 PM   #30
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I'm not a big fan of Bakunin -- or most old ass anarchists -- but he has this quote that I think sums it up nicely.

"Freedom, morality, and the human dignity of the individual consists precisely in this; that he does good not because he is forced to do so, but because he freely conceives it, wants it, and loves it."

Iono, lots of people's relationships with their gods don't allow them to "freely conceive" moral agency. (I believe it was Kant who said the morality of an action depends on the motives, not the action itself? No clue, I know little about philosophy and shit.) Not all, but I'm sure they exist aplenty. Plus the whole theological fatalism thing really conflicts with anarchist notions of freedom imo.

Uh, to be clear, I don't think believing in god is incompatible with anarchy, just with some brands of anarchist theory.

Something I've never understood about Bakunin (and a whole array of old lefties) is that they claim "human nature" is dictated by the social conditions of the time on the one hand, and upon the other they presuppose that humans by nature will progress and advance, but the evil state and capitalists are holding them back. Pretty lame. Ŋ\_(ツ)_/Ŋ

Last edited by due 07 : 01-14-2012 at 02:14 PM.
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Old 01-14-2012, 02:24 PM   #31
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(I believe it was Kant who said the morality of an action depends on the motives, not the action itself? No clue, I know little about philosophy and shit.)


Thatīs correct.
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Old 01-14-2012, 02:26 PM   #32
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:3
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Old 01-15-2012, 06:26 AM   #33
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I used to be all into anarcho-pacifism in my high school days. A small part of me still holds onto it, but I dont believe an anarchist society (larger than a small commune) would ever work. The trouble with anarchism is the majority of the people would not be for it, and most people are scum anyways.
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Old 01-15-2012, 08:05 AM   #34
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The problem with Anarchy is Hobbes' "Thirst for glory" which Hegel calls "Anerkennung" (Acknowledgement?). A problem that is fenced in in many societies nowadays by money and....
If people see their self-worth verified thereīs no problem, but howīs that possible?
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Old 01-31-2012, 09:25 AM   #35
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Anarchy's awesome when it happens like at Rainbow Gathering or sustainable living workshops, but I feel like everybody would get really sick of it after like a year or two. A lot of serious anarchists are kind of annoying and really one-sided though, but I guess that goes hand in hand with living completely independent of virtually all established civilization.

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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_anarchism

Religion is not always an enemy

I'm a Christian but religion doesn't work with Anarchy. Religion is basically the government of faith, whereas God is something like the morality necessary to Anarchism. The first church described in the Book of Acts is kind of a form of Anarchy in that it's not based on a system of rules, but doing your best to be an image of Jesus and a light to your fellow man. A lot of people would disagree but that's just my two cents.
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Old 02-05-2012, 06:10 AM   #36
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Ah anarchism. There are a lot of political ideologies I disagree with but anarchism always has a special place in my heart.

Libertarians, socialists, communists, technocrats, republicans, monarchists, traibalists. There are plenty of people who espouse an affiliation with those political ideologies and you can see it actively reflected in their lifestyles and their current and future goals.

But with anarchists a lot of kids (and manchildren on the internet) will claim to support anarchy and all the things that would sociopolitically entail but will do absolutely nothing in their real lives that even comes close to anarchy. It's just funny to see all these people talk about the merits of anarchy and when you ask them why they buy their stuff at Wal-Mart they explain that since it isn't an anarchistic society we live in and people are all huge jerks they have to play by societies rules.

All I am saying is that anarchists literally have the cutest cop outs. Nothing is cuter than the political opinions of anarchists.
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Old 02-05-2012, 06:23 AM   #37
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All I have to say is that all your pretty ideals and theories break down when you realize that science can't progress under anarchism.

Go ahead, argue that science and mathematics would progress without a structured society. I would love to hear a theory on how a society without structure would be able to do research on matters of subatomic physics. How would a structureless society learn the secrets of medicine or the other natural philosophies? How would mathematics progress without a dedicated system of education? How many of you have ever looked at a Laplace transform and thought "damn I know I don't have to know this but I sure would like to explore the majestic world of differential equations!"
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Old 02-05-2012, 06:38 AM   #38
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you're not troo ponx then. anarchy in the uk, man.
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Old 02-05-2012, 08:15 AM   #39
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Originally Posted by axeslash
All I have to say is that all your pretty ideals and theories break down when you realize that science can't progress under anarchism.

Go ahead, argue that science and mathematics would progress without a structured society. I would love to hear a theory on how a society without structure would be able to do research on matters of subatomic physics. How would a structureless society learn the secrets of medicine or the other natural philosophies? How would mathematics progress without a dedicated system of education? How many of you have ever looked at a Laplace transform and thought "damn I know I don't have to know this but I sure would like to explore the majestic world of differential equations!"


Context governance by those who are affected, I have no idea how it should work, but thatīs an idea that plays a certain role in the current democracy discussion.

The funny thing about this is, that the neocons say that science (and with them economy) can only grow in democracies......

But generally I agree with you Matt, just sayng there might be a way. But I wonīt get old enough to see it work.
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Old 02-05-2012, 03:00 PM   #40
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Nothing is cuter than the political opinions of anarchists.

Oh I dunno, yer pretty cute. :3
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