due 07

Aww well that's no fair. Your criticism wasn't really substantiated (at all), so it's not like I had any reason to believe you understand. Burden of proof lies on those making positive claims, don'tcha know. But here ya go.

It's funny that you mention that you're social democrat, cuz as far as liberal criticisms of anarchism go, the most common trope seems to be "it's structureless mang." The problem w/ that criticism is that it's demonstrably false:

• Take a couple minutes to read about the anarchist societies of yore I've talked about in this thread -- they didn't all of a sudden become rife w/ murder and rape cuz of anarchy
  • Pls don't say "oh ya what about somalia" cuz ftr that's not an anarchist society in the anarchy-as-political-theory sense
• The existence of -- very organized -- nonhierarchal anarchist national and international organizations such as the International of Anarchist Federation and the International Workers Association should be proof enough that hierarchy and coercion aren't the only types of organization; therefore, anarchist societies + organizations devoid of hierarchy and coercion aren't necessarily disorganized and structureless.
• It's well documented that most anarchists are very critical of the tyranny of structurelessness.

I think what ur criticism implies is really scary. Even progressive self-proclaimed social democrats like yourself think that hiearachy is not just a form of organization, but the only form. That kind of attitude is so ubiquitous in our culture that we let the po-po pepper spray kids for sitting down in nonviolent protest.

I'm not an anarchist. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

neidnarb11890

I'm not an antichrist.

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DanRev

Makes more sense than any "proletarian vanguard" bullshit anyway.

Mgraz

[IMG]357lod[/IMG]

if you cant see the imig then here is a link

http://i.qkme.me/357lod.jpg

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Y'all know how people say that joke about a hipster burning his or her tongue by drinking coffee before it was cool? I think I've heard that joke like six times in the last two weeks.

neidnarb11890

I heard that joke before it was cool.

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DanRev

i have a book on my chin
i am back to NIN
I am proud of my honey
wiggle wiggle

xevious1

anarchy would never work in reality, its hardly even worth consideration.

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DeltaLab Rock Distortion pedal

due 07

Except it has worked in reality.

neidnarb11890

i dont liek anarchists becuz im dislexyc & they remind me of spiders.

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bradulator

Why does this thread keep coming back

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SuperBlob

I genuinely lol'd

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FUCK YOU! GET PUMPED!

neidnarb11890

It's like punk; every so often there's a really shitty "revival" movement.

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anarchy always comes back. the bourgeois godhead tries to crush anarchy with its gold thumb. but anarchy swipes back with vine whip. tentacool spins in circles on a record turntable and splashes its victims eyes with venemoth's seed. anarchy is served on a plate with fries and gives the godhead heartburn approximately every three days. anarchy is a goblin that sneaks up behind a wizard and pulls the wool over its eyes. anarchy is the wooly bully (messiah), both fully man and fully lamb.

Mav-16

OH boy political discussions sure are fun!

It is true, Anarchy (or at least an anarchist/socialist movement) has worked in some parts of the world. There is a place in Sweden i believe that was a small village for about 30 or 40 years that was pure Anarchy where everyone helped and worked and etc. But then meth headed bikers from out of town came in and took over (by force of course) and ****ed everything up. It's unfortunate but it is true. Not everything (or everyone) in life is perfect, and like Due 07 said himself, Outside influence causes anarchy to collapse. Well thats all it takes really, just one person or one thing to break something down.

The reality is that there will always be someone who wants more. Or take advantage of any given situation. Take the "occupy" movement for example, sure there were pleanty of individuals on one agenda (against corporate greed- pretty broad right?) and there were homeless junkies walking off the street for a free place to crash. OH well

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axeslash

I always seem to get into this same debate with people every time this kind of argument comes up. I say things, then someone else says "man that isn't true" and then I say more stuff and instead of refuting me people just go "man it sure is sad that you are so brainwashed by the popular views of the capitalist/hierarchical/class-based systems."

Please move on from this whole idea that I think anarchy is nothing but structurelessness. I understand that. Anarchy isn't just not having someone in charge. I'm not 14 anymore.

I just don't think that anything an anarchistic society has ever done was worth a damn, and that cherry-picked propaganda about how magical some anarchist organizations are isn't going to convince me otherwise. I don't believe in working towards some magical visionary pseudo-socialist anarchistic collective in the future when there are systems that can get clear results.

For once I'd like to talk about anarchy without some loser telling me I just don't get the way things work and I'm wrong about everything. I'd love a reasonable discussion where my lack of knowledge of a system I think is stupid isn't seen as me being a brainwashed capitalist. I want you to look at me as a crazy cynical old man who just doesn't give a damn anymore about silly kids telling me how the world works. That's the angle you should come at me with.

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axeslash

So how exactly is it that people think anarchy is awesome when it takes so little effort to wreck everything people worked on for over 40 years? Like how hard do you have to cognitive dissonance your brain into not seeing how blindingly useless a system as fragile as that is?

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the glue man

Baby, I'm an anarchist.

due 07

"Go ahead, argue that science and mathematics would progress without a structured society."

I'm terribly sorry for misunderstanding you, Mr. Axe, but that statement sure implies that anarchism is structureless. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯