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Old 03-14-2012, 03:07 PM   #1
JazzDeath
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Upto C4C - Evolutions of a Lover's Quarrel (Tech/Prog Melo-Death) - C4C

Haihaihai ladies and gentlemen! Song now COMPLETE!

Needs polishing in some places but I have been listening and working on it for so long that I get the impression my perception is skewered and I'm unsure how to go along fixing the micro and macro issues in structure, so I decided to drop it here and hope for some EPIC CONSTRUCTIVE FEEDBACK!

As always, the more intelligent criticism you give, the more I shall give to you for your own piece.

Feel free to be picky, and negative, if it ends up being constructive. I prefer constructive criticism to both insult, and praise.

Oh and feel free to say it's unplayable, also. I'll just not bother answering to that one .

*Edit - Song is updated, should be very much near the final completion!*
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Last edited by JazzDeath : 04-29-2012 at 11:19 AM.
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Old 03-14-2012, 03:35 PM   #2
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Okay, just started listening, so 2 little things:


1)How do you play those chords from the beginning?
2)I think the rhythm from the main riff (bar 21 onwards) is off.
It seems to me each higher note falls into each beat of the bar.

Meaning, instead of it being like it is at 200 bpm, it would be like I said before but in 134 bpm.

Something like this:





(P.S: That rhythm weird thing that happens in lots of "metal" or "prog" songs always throws me off, but maybe it's a special technique from said genre and I'm interpreting it wrong or something).
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Old 03-14-2012, 10:15 PM   #3
FrauVfromPoB
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So...This is seriously cool. Obviously it can't be played by conventional means, but that's nothing a little multitracking won't fix. The song progresses very smoothly from one section to the next, and despite the insane time signature changes, it all flows very well.

My only gripe isn't really a gripe exactly, but rather just something I noticed. That main riff that you keep coming back to reminds me a lot of Livin' La Vida Loca. It's an awesome riff, and surely isn't intentional, but that's just what I think of. I like it.

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Old 03-14-2012, 10:53 PM   #4
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^ Don't be so sure, kiddo. JD has written some stuff a damn sight more insane than this. With the exception of perhaps a few bits here and there, this is all stuff I'm sure JD can play, based on previous things he's written. And it's no harder than some of the stuff Kiko Lureiro or Rafael Bittencourt can do with the guitar. Hell, I've tried learning some of it, and can do it, or could with lots of work...

So yeah. I dont come here hardly ever, at all anymore. Just figured I'd say the above. And as usual, kick ass stuff JD. What about it is unfinished? Seemed pretty damn finished to me...
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Old 03-15-2012, 10:32 AM   #5
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nothing much to add, great stuff as usual. Have you ever recorded one of your songs? I would love to listen to one in a finalized format.
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Old 03-15-2012, 12:03 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by Burning_Angel
^ Don't be so sure, kiddo. JD has written some stuff a damn sight more insane than this. With the exception of perhaps a few bits here and there, this is all stuff I'm sure JD can play, based on previous things he's written. And it's no harder than some of the stuff Kiko Lureiro or Rafael Bittencourt can do with the guitar. Hell, I've tried learning some of it, and can do it, or could with lots of work...

So yeah. I dont come here hardly ever, at all anymore. Just figured I'd say the above. And as usual, kick ass stuff JD. What about it is unfinished? Seemed pretty damn finished to me...


I may have forgotten a word or two in that sentence. I was mostly talking about the chords at the beginning, and a few other really long reaches or jumps.. You can't really play a chord that has two stretches from the 1st to 7th frets or whatever very easily, aka through conventional means. But all the stuff in the middle is perfectly playable, although obviously difficult.
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Old 03-16-2012, 11:01 AM   #7
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Oh yes, that I agree with. Tappable though, like the intro t Heroes of Sand.
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Old 03-17-2012, 04:01 AM   #8
JazzDeath
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To answer Gonzaw -

1 - They aren't meant to be played in live application, actually very little of the music I write on guitar pro is meant for live playing, moreso for developing my skills as a composer and for a studio session later on; those chords are indeed nearly unplayable. You could probably do something with either tapping one or two of the notes or using your thumb on your left hand, that being said it would be excessively hard to make it sound decent. To be honest it's meant to be layered through several tracks as a fade in effect; I just dislike working with large amounts of tracks on guitar pro - harder to organise, to mix properly, and to harmonize, at least for me.

If I ever play this stuff live, those chords will either be split, or sampled.

2 - You are correct, at least in the sense that it is tabbed wrong in my tab, but your way of writing it is also wrong - it's actually in 12/8 (4 beats that include 3 8th notes) at 200 BPM.

I've included an example of the section of the song at the bottom if you want.

The reason I wrote it in 4/4 is simply that I wrote that section on guitar a long time ago and simply did not take the time to rearrange every section of the song afterwards, it is indeed a mistake on my part and not the proper way to tab this.

Actually many sections are badly tabbed which is unusual for me but I was too lazy to fix it for now, I'll do it later... Just don't listen to it with the click on


To FrauVfromPoB -

Well, definitely wasn't intentional, but quite funny nonetheless - I see the resemblence. Thanks for listening, glad you enjoyed it.

And, finally to Burning Angel, I'm glad you like it, but as I said before I'm not primarily a guitarist - I can play the easy riffs in this song but the leads and the middle section, not clean nor at that speed. Either way when I decide to record this I have a guitarist in mind to play my music, and I'll be doing the drums.
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Old 03-23-2012, 05:46 PM   #9
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Gettin' back on this crittin' schnizzle.

Digging the weird chords in the beginning, and the use of vibrato and fade ins really spice them up. They're insane, I would love for you to demonstrate the fingering (ololo).
The first riff is really nice, melodic but still groovy. Digging the drumming, you clearly had a lot of work composing this. The bass riff starting at 45 is pretty awesome, loving the slap section. Digging the batshit insane sweeps at 61. A reintro, with a nice transition, pretty awesome so far. Loving the guitar work from 102 on, the almost "independence" of both guitars remind me alot of early At The Gates. The next 9/8 is prety good aswell, it's amazing how well it flows. Loving the clean break mid riff, nice transition to 6/8 and then back to 9/8. Loving the 7/8 diminished runs at 162. I like how the tempo slows down mid riff but it doesn't feel forced. Pretty chaotic guitar work with some awesome harmonies. Ahh, finally some blast beats. 194 to 206 is just lovely, specially the chromatic slides at the end of 206 flow really well to the next riff, wich is repetition of the previous "diminished" run. The tempo changes are abundant, and absolutely insane, but withouth looking at the tab I couldn't point them out, so props for that. Gotta love 215 lol. Really disjointed guitar work, with a nice transition to the first riff. Gotta love 226/228 aswell lol. I love how insanely chaotic this piece fills but still is catchy as hell. The final chorus is just lovely lol, and then the insane sweeps are back, don't feel repetitive. And I gotta say, this is the second time Guitar Pro freaked out while playing this file, starting to ring out all the notes: this song is probably too awesome for it to handle it . Loving the fade out, with the spooky acoustic work. This is easily a 9.5/10, I just won't give it a 10 because I just do not believe in the existance of perfect songs, although this is pretty close to it.
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Old 03-23-2012, 11:18 PM   #10
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Well yeah..it makes more sense for it to be in 12/8 at 200 bpm >_>

<_<

I dunno why I thought some other instrument was in 4/4 lol
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Old 03-26-2012, 07:04 AM   #11
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So finally getting round to this, thanks for the deep crit, apologies if mine isn't quite as technical as yours.

First off, I loved the intro, it was really fresh, and I just really liked the atmosphere created. I wasn't the biggest fan of the galloping rhythm after bar 20, but that's just personal preference. But then the lead in Section 1 was sick.

Bars 102-135 was one of the sickest bits of music I heard, really liked that.

The next section has some mixed feelings, I see what you were going for with the sudden change to clean guitar but to me it sounded a little odd, the music itself was good still though. I think if the drums seemed less constant, and there was a stronger transition from distortion to clean with the drums it'd help. Nonetheless, the next few dozen bars were great.

I did feel however that the music started to lose some steam when the blast beats were happening, and until bar 228. It was still impressive but it wasn't as interesting as the previous music.

I liked how you used the lead from Section 1 in the last section before the outro, worked really nicely.

The slap bass was really cool throughout, and the drums were well written, both really complimented the piece. It's a really great piece, my criticism doesn't mean much, I'm just being picky since I struggled to find anything wrong with it haha. Nice one man.
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Old 04-17-2012, 05:37 PM   #12
JazzDeath
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Updated, should be final!
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Old 04-18-2012, 09:30 AM   #13
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Progressive madness.. Only thing to mention I didn't like was transition to first real riff..
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Old 04-23-2012, 03:38 AM   #14
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Brilliant.

Seriously sir, brilliantly written. Can't remember the last time I heard a song tell a story that well without words. It fits the section titles perfectly.

And each riff and sequence is stellar, as well. Nothing I would say needs to be done, except one thing... The transition into the first riff: I'd play the descending chord thing with all the dotted notes [at bar 16] at the normal tempo, and hold the chord a little longer, and then just write a drum solo for a bar or two that leads into bar 19. Or at least make it a tad less jarring somehow at 16/17.
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Old 04-23-2012, 08:14 PM   #15
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Everything sounds better when recorded, so I would love to hear a finished version but this is a really great piece even in tab. You really know how to construct flowing sections of different types of riffs together. This sounds like a really fun song to play as well. You have a good knowledge of chords, i especially love the ones in the 'prologue'. The changing time signatures works very well throughout. Good stuff!

Any chance of some crit on my piece?

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Old 04-30-2012, 12:52 AM   #16
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Hey man! It's been quite awhile since I've heard one of your pieces... and, to be honest this one is my favorite out of all of yours. Your actual composition skills (though always top-notch) are at another level. The way it's structured isn't quite as random as your other stuff, which I like a lot. It shows a level of maturity that many composers haven't figured out yet.

Having said that... there are some things that bothered me a bit, I'll try and go through them one by one:

By bar 12 I've begun getting tired of the intro. I feel you could probably get the drums to accent something the guitar is doing or even do its own thing. Even a short bass melody at measure 8 would break up the monotony.

As just something that I find interesting, the way you transition into the actual sections is very JR-like with the fade-out and high vibrato guitars. It works though

The main riff "Argument" is nice, but it's a bit... cliche, y'know? Add something to spice it up. It reminds me too much of metalcore.

Oh, and **** yeah slap bass in the next section.

Another thing that bothers me about the main riff is that every time it repeats it's the same for the most part, or there's just tiny changes to it (harmony wise, or that one quarter note pause is slightly different). You could totally make the guitars be a bit different than the normal galloping rhythm, or make the drums distinctly different. Even use the strings you have!

At first all the tempo changes took my ear off-guard, but as I listened more I got used to them.

That's pretty much all that I could find that really threw my ear off, I really like the piece man!

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Old 05-13-2012, 02:02 PM   #17
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Intro chord progression is awesome, really liking the dissonant 7ths and such. Argument reminds me of the riffing style of Death, like in Scavenger of Human sorrow.

Really liking the atmosphere at Embrace, the melody is great.

DEM STRINGS.

Intermezzo has some crazy syncopation, and has some serious build up. Really neat stuff. Same applies for Element Zero, and I like the melodic flow.

Act II leads well into Emotional Vortex, where I dig the progression. The sequence back into argument is also great, and I like how you were able to take the main theme of Argument and use it as a set up for the actual subject. I'm blanking on the term for it, but its something common in fugues.

I'm usually not skeptical about how possible individual phrases are, and I see that plenty of this is playable or possible to arrange, but The Final Intermission seems a bit too much. 259 specifically.

Conclusion was great, and fit the song well with the string refrain.

Overall, a very JazzDeath-esque song.
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