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Old 03-30-2012, 10:31 PM   #61
Xiaoxi
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I agreed up to the Petrucci part. He is awful... And I don't see how he comes from jazz.

But also, I don't know if gauging someone's technical talent by considering how they can adapt to a very different style is the best way. I don't think that's really the problem with metal guitarists/writers. It's that they just don't get the big picture.
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Old 03-30-2012, 10:58 PM   #62
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I agreed up to the Petrucci part. He is awful... And I don't see how he comes from jazz.


Yea, I didnt mean to use him as an example of a jazz background guy. I was thinking more along the lines of some classical in terms of theoretical understanding, due to being a Berklee guy. I think my train of thought was more broadly about musical education - which happens to be dominated by classical and jazz.

Fact is, the contemporary jazz world is significantly the product of music education, as jazz has begun to be canonized along with classical at the universities, and a lot of the music, to get deeply into it, requires knowledge tantamount to what you would get from a music program at a good university, as well as open-ness as a listener to a variety of ideas - which I think most metal players tend to lack.

I don't think Petrucci is awful. He's good for what he does. He definitely could be more rounded though, when compared to some other players - definitely a rocker at heart. Which is fine for what it is.

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But also, I don't know if gauging someone's technical talent by considering how they can adapt to a very different style is the best way. I don't think that's really the problem with metal guitarists/writers. It's that they just don't get the big picture.


Well, a big part of my point really is about music theory knowledge, and relatedly, conciousness of the musical possibilities. I think a lot of metal guys just don't get the big picture in terms of musicality - it's generally a limited pallete of tools. It often reflects the attitude of someone trying to jump ahead of themselves into "complexity" without much nuance in their understanding, and with "complexity" being in a certain box. It's the makeshift "music theory" of a rock guitarist, before being significantly exposed to and internalizing a more complete and broad pallete of musical tools.

Last edited by Brainpolice2 : 03-30-2012 at 11:09 PM.
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Old 03-31-2012, 12:29 AM   #63
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just to throw my 2cents in here on what i feel hasnt really been touched on too well( and im not a great guitar player, but i do love music).

jazz guitarists i guess, and in general anyone who is willing to improvise live, that takes real talent. Any joe blow with 10 fingers can learn someone elses music given time and a proper diet(and im proof, because i have zero talent). To come up with something on the spot that is appealing, that takes talent, and balls. Writting compelling music is something I dont feel like metal players are very good at it. I like all sorts of music, and metal is probably my least favorite genre, and that includes country/rap/western/all sorts of rock, there are plenty of metal songs i like, but usually i would stray away from it. Im not sure if its because of the volume it is generally played at, or because it is generally very fast and distorted, its just difficult for me to enjoy. I just feel like because of the speed/volume of the music its very tough for me to even appreciate it, whereas you take the first notes from somethign fur elise or other popular melodies, layla comes to mind, i think thats where "talent" really plays a role.
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Old 03-31-2012, 12:38 AM   #64
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Originally Posted by Brainpolice2
Yea, I didnt mean to use him as an example of a jazz background guy. I was thinking more along the lines of some classical in terms of theoretical understanding, due to being a Berklee guy.
lol Berklee is not known for classical theory It has historically been a jazz school, and classical theory is somewhat of a new addition. I don't get the sense that he has a handle on classical theory or classical music, not that this is a flaw itself. But there is absolutely nothing in his music, playing, or talks that shows he's familiar with the classical language or theory.

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I don't think Petrucci is awful. He's good for what he does. He definitely could be more rounded though, when compared to some other players - definitely a rocker at heart. Which is fine for what it is.
Personally I find his playing physically nauseating, and it has nothing to do with lack of versatility. Marty Friedman is someone who I'd say has tasteful playing techniques in the metal style.
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Old 03-31-2012, 12:43 AM   #65
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Originally Posted by Xiaoxi
Marty Friedman is someone who I'd say has tasteful playing techniques in the metal style.

I believe he is the type of player who would wholeheartedly agree with your sig, too.
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Old 03-31-2012, 12:44 AM   #66
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^Oh he would
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Old 03-31-2012, 03:20 AM   #67
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Psshh yea guys **** that John petrucci dude give me some of that good ole jazz playing that I hear in the back of this lesbo porn Im watching right now it's the only reason I have the volume up
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Old 03-31-2012, 03:30 AM   #68
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Psshh yea guys **** that John petrucci dude give me some of that good ole jazz playing that I hear in the back of this lesbo porn Im watching right now it's the only reason I have the volume up


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Old 03-31-2012, 04:18 AM   #69
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Oh oops that's right smooth jazz is for those simple folk my bad forgot I'm speaking to a bunch of people that are musically superior to John petrucci because they follow every chord change And don't think in shapes or scales ever
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Old 03-31-2012, 04:34 AM   #70
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Originally Posted by Fourfourforever
Oh oops that's right smooth jazz is for those simple folk my bad forgot I'm speaking to a bunch of people that are musically superior to John petrucci because they follow every chord change And don't think in shapes or scales ever


Dude seriously go away. If you think of music in the form of shapes only it completely limits what you can do. Shapes and Scales are just tools, you have to listen to the tonality. Playing in one shape didn't write any of the worlds greatest music.

That being said, On topic with the OP:

Guthrie Govan, Andy Timmons, Steve Vai, Joe Satriani. I wouldn't really consider any of these guys "metal" per se, and they all blow me away with their musicality.
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Old 03-31-2012, 04:44 AM   #71
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Passing judgement to quickly on me check reinforcing a more reputable member of the forum for cool points check asking someone to go away in a public forum in a rude manner check denying that shapes and patterns exist in music with having the choice to acknowledge it if u want or not check
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Old 03-31-2012, 05:14 AM   #72
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Writing posts without any dots or commas making sure that even if you would have a point no one will take you seriously check
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Old 03-31-2012, 09:25 AM   #73
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Originally Posted by Fourfourforever
a more reputable member of the forum



His post count (7x higher than mine) may beg to differ.

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Psshh yea guys **** that John petrucci dude give me some of that good ole jazz playing that I hear in the back of this lesbo porn Im watching right now it's the only reason I have the volume up

^And how can this possibly not be trolling?

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Old 03-31-2012, 09:40 AM   #74
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ok fine maybe i was a little butt hurt from the petrucci opinions above
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Old 03-31-2012, 10:08 AM   #75
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Chet Atkins is awesome.

By the way.
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Old 03-31-2012, 01:32 PM   #76
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This isn't electric guitar but it's way more impressive than any metal playing I've seen

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Old 03-31-2012, 05:03 PM   #77
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I play an Ibanez RG. Would that limit me if I tried to play Jazz?

If you guys say Jazz players would find most metal boring to play, then perhaps I want the same thing out of guitar playing that Jazz players want. I'm desperate for something different and challenging to learn on guitar.

I have some favourite rock bands but their tabs are really nothing impressive, especially for one guitarist to replicate. For example, Pixies. In my eyes they are pure geniuses, but to be fair, Black Francis' singing is bordering on can't sing (I really really like his vocal style but in terms of just singing skill, let's just say he wouldn't get far in a singing competition. Oddly this is part of the reason I love this band so much because it still works so damn well lol). And Joey Santiago has the easiest job in the world being lead guitarist in that band.

Anyway, I have no idea at all when it comes to Jazz, can anyone suggest me an easy enough piece for electric guitar, something accessible to someone who usually plays rock/metal, but something that will keep me interested, not too easy to play, and importantly something that has a good guitar pro tab of it?
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Old 03-31-2012, 05:17 PM   #78
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brainpolice2
When often relatively young, inexperienced, non-trained metal musicians think that they are doing something technical or complex or progressive, it tends to be underwhelming from a broader musical perspective. It often comes off as if they really do not know what they are doing, but they certainly are trying to be complex, with certain pretensions of what that means. Take Periphery as a contemporary archetype of this.


What's wrong with Periphery? My mate is really into them. I like a few of their songs like All New Materials, Icarus Lives and Jetpacks Was Yes.

Give me an example of a metal song that you like which isn't "underwhelming from a broader musical perspective" and explain why.
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Old 03-31-2012, 05:39 PM   #79
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What's wrong with Periphery? My mate is really into them. I like a few of their songs like All New Materials, Icarus Lives and Jetpacks Was Yes.


Yes, but whether or not you enjoy a piece of music doesn't necessarily relate to the technical skill required to compose a piece of music. Periphery might be the most universally enjoyable band in the world but it wouldn't mean squat for the technical proficiency of it's members.
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Old 03-31-2012, 05:50 PM   #80
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Yes, but whether or not you enjoy a piece of music doesn't necessarily relate to the technical skill required to compose a piece of music. Periphery might be the most universally enjoyable band in the world but it wouldn't mean squat for the technical proficiency of it's members.


Not sure what you mean tbh. Their songs seem technical to me. They sound like a lot of thought have gone into them. Do you disagree?
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