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Old 07-02-2012, 01:58 PM   #21
Offworld92
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Different pickups, especially drastic differences like an active vs a passive will always be a much larger difference than something like scale length. Not that it's not important, but you have to look at your order of effect.
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Old 07-02-2012, 02:09 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Controlpanel
I agree with half of this post. I use 12's for drop b on my les paul, but I do not think that scale length nessisarily euqates to different tone. standard fender (25'') and Gibson (24.75") are not "worlds apart...its only about 1/4'' :wink:

It's 25.5" on a strat, and that's a pretty significant different in the world of scale. Again, if you have the chance to try a short-scale strat or a long-scale Les Paul, I bet you'll hear the same things I do. It's pretty neat to hear how much of the strat/tele twang comes from just the scale length. For even more extreme references, notice how the tones from, say, a Rickenbacker (super short scale) or a Soloway (super long scale) coincide with the more subtle changes in measurement of the standard Fender/Gibson scales.

Quote:
Originally Posted by guitar/bass95
But I mean that it shouldn't make the tone all muddy and sludgy on lower tunings, I've seen a lot of people tuning down with 24.75 necks and they sound just fine.

Didn't say it has to. I just disagreed with your claim that scale length has "nothing to do with tone." It does, so it's probably a contributing factor here.
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Old 07-02-2012, 03:32 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roc8995
^Scale length has a lot to do with tone! Absolutely it does.


thank you.

in the time it took me to shake my head clear you posted.
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Old 07-02-2012, 03:41 PM   #24
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EMGs.
24.75
12-60
Drop Ab


Tight as a gnats arse.
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Old 07-02-2012, 03:47 PM   #25
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My 7 string is 24.75" and I play it in Drop A with 10-58 and I still get a pretty tight low end.
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Old 07-02-2012, 03:54 PM   #26
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Originally Posted by Nico the Great
24.75" can handle metal fine. If you're really heavily downtuned, just have appropriate-tension strings on there. It shouldn't really be an issue

This, i use 13's in B standard on VGS Eruption (Les paul body shape and scale) and its perfectly fine.
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Old 07-02-2012, 04:24 PM   #27
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you get more clarity from the lower notes with a longer scale length. this is the reason why bass guitars have a longer scale length, and why grand pianos are shaped the way they are, among other things.

i think it's quite possible that you just might not like the drop tuned tones you can get out of a 24.75" scale guitar, in which case, it doesn't make a difference how many people tell you 'i tune 6 string bass tuning on my 20.5" scale guitar with 8-38 gauge strings and i don't have any problems'.

still, like others have suggested, try getting some thicker strings and see if that works for you, before deciding whether you need a new guitar or not, as that can help tighten up the low end a bit, too.
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Old 07-02-2012, 05:47 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blompcube
you get more clarity from the lower notes with a longer scale length. this is the reason why bass guitars have a longer scale length, and why grand pianos are shaped the way they are, among other things.

i think it's quite possible that you just might not like the drop tuned tones you can get out of a 24.75" scale guitar, in which case, it doesn't make a difference how many people tell you 'i tune 6 string bass tuning on my 20.5" scale guitar with 8-38 gauge strings and i don't have any problems'.

still, like others have suggested, try getting some thicker strings and see if that works for you, before deciding whether you need a new guitar or not, as that can help tighten up the low end a bit, too.



Haha, I figured as much. I've been around UG long enough to know that if I posted an idea such as the one in this thread I'd receive dozens of responses to the contrary. Though I had hoped to hear from some folks who run 25.5" scales or larger. I've even entertained the idea of getting a baritone guitar but I've heard their necks are kind of thick. I played a Gibson Les Paul Bari once and I played it fine though...
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Old 07-02-2012, 05:52 PM   #29
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I DO have some longer-scale guitars. I was just answering the question asked- 24.75 can handle (some) low tunings just fine, if set up to do so with the right strings.
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Old 07-02-2012, 06:02 PM   #30
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Some people use them. Some people like them. However, some don't. Maybe you're one of them? I think one of the guys from Nile use a 24.75" for A, and it works for them. Works for them; I would never use their tone.

It could be any number of things. You don't have the right effects to get the tone you want; not the right EQ; perhaps your amp cannot handle it well; maybe your pickups are working against you; maybe your strings aren't the right tension for your preference.

And the big one. Maybe you have the right tension... but you don't like the thickness of the strings. This is where it all comes down to scale length. If you had a longer scale, you could use thinner strings. You would have far less fundamental (i.e. mud) in your tone and more high-end. When you go shorter and use thicker strings for equivalent tension, the string starts to become less flexible and behaves more like a rod than a string. This is where the fundamental plays more of a part to the sound, and where the overtones become less apparent. Perhaps you simply don't like that aspect.

Since my guitar's an eight-string, it has a scale length of 27". But it's an Ibanez, so it's neck is very thin (and I think it's extremely comfortable). Having fooled around with many strings and tunings on this guitar and a 25.5", I can confidently say that I prefer the tone on my 27". Comparing gauge of string to tension, I could only go as low as C on my 25.5" before I felt the tone was really lacking. But that's just me; I prefer less fundamental, and clearer overtones. That's something I couldn't get on my 25.5" to my satisfaction.
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Old 07-02-2012, 06:56 PM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KailM
Though I had hoped to hear from some folks who run 25.5" scales or larger.

Then why did you ask a question that ruled out that kind of response? Your question was specifically directed towards 24.75 guitars.
It also didn't make sense to mention it because as you said, we all know it works fine with longer scale lengths.
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Old 07-02-2012, 07:40 PM   #32
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^^Well, really I'm talking about all scale lengths; maybe my original question wasn't clear enough. I'm going to get a new guitar regardless, but the responses I'm getting will help me to rule out certain models.

So far, most people have stated that shorter scale guitars with the proper strings are okay for tight, clear, low-tuned metal. So now I'll consider some 24.75" scale guitars again -- I had thought that only a 25.5" or longer would do...
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Old 07-02-2012, 08:11 PM   #33
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If scale length has nothing to do with tone, tell me why they make multi-scale guitars?
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Old 07-02-2012, 08:18 PM   #34
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^ To be pedantic, I'd argue that it plays a more immediate role in feel, and of course in needing or not needing small or thick strings. If you're tuning to A standard, its just more economical to get a 27" and 11s or 12s than to use a 24.75" with 14's or 15's.
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Old 07-03-2012, 09:18 AM   #35
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http://novaxguitars.com/info/technical.html

I think this article might clear up some misconceptions, and is overall an interesting read about how Scale Length is relevant to tone and string tension. Of course don't treat it as gospel, but more as a guideline - after all personal preference is the most important thing

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dayn
Some people use them. Some people like them. However, some don't. Maybe you're one of them? I think one of the guys from Nile use a 24.75" for A, and it works for them. Works for them; I would never use their tone.

From one of the interviews i heard that they use 0.080" for the A string. It's quite thick (in fact as thick as your average A string on a bass guitar), so i suppose it has some decent tension on it. But i agree, what works for them, might not work for anyone else.

Last edited by El_Bozo : 07-03-2012 at 09:32 AM.
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Old 07-03-2012, 09:20 AM   #36
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24.75" Scale guitars aren't worth considering for anything. You should only use 30" short scale basses strung up with guitar strings for drop tuning.
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Old 07-03-2012, 09:23 AM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kangaxxter
24.75" Scale guitars aren't worth considering for anything. You should only use 30" short scale basses strung up with guitar strings for drop tuning.



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Old 07-03-2012, 09:31 AM   #38
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Originally Posted by KailM
Is this just a case where MY guitar sounds muddy when moderately downtuned, or is that a characteristic of all 24.75" scale guitars? I do have a pretty tight, clear pickup in the bridge so I know that's not the problem. Thanks!

You got it there. It's either your pickup or your amps. Do not turn that gain knob on your amp all the way up.
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Old 07-03-2012, 09:48 AM   #39
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Old 07-03-2012, 10:04 AM   #40
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^^(@ Sethis) Thanks for the suggestion, but I moved beyond the teenage "gain to 11" stage fifteen years ago.
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