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Old 07-15-2012, 10:51 AM   #1
GU5T4V
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"Never Comes", Progressive rock/metal [GP5, C4C]

It's been a long time since I last posted something at these forums (but back then I kinda compensated by posting ten songs at once), mainly because I've been very non-productive. Anyhow, after a long writers block I've just snapped into a new songwriting spell and I have produced a three-song story arc, of sort.

I've decided to post the middle piece, entitled "Never Comes". The first piece of the trilogy turned into a prog-metal behemoth, and eager to prove to myself that "I can make music sound just as good by just using three chords and simple melodies", I set off to write this song. 34 bars in, I found myself knee-deep in dissonant riffing and uneven time signatures. Figures.

Would love if you guys could listen it through (it's about 6:21 minutes, all in all) and give me some thoughts on it. Cheerio!

EDIT: Shortened up the intro
Attached Files
File Type: gp5 train.gp5 (117.1 KB, 186 views)

Last edited by GU5T4V : 07-16-2012 at 02:08 PM.
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Old 07-16-2012, 01:11 PM   #2
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Starts off kind of slow, sort of leaves you waiting, wondering if anythings gonna happen. Then things blow through with that epic synth line. Sounds great, kinda Muse meets Dream Theater like. That djenty riff sounds great, has a groove without getting too djenty for the sake of being djenty. The no drums interlude sounds cool with what you did, though maybe you could add the guitar parts with djenty palm muting and keep the original palm muted guitar parts on a synth?

And I still think the best part of the entire song is the chorus synth line. Maybe you could try fading out the song with that?

EDIT: The drums sound a bit indistinct in the heavy bits between the softer bits, but that might just be the RSE. Interesting choice of chords for the bit thick chord bits.
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Old 07-16-2012, 02:02 PM   #3
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I've listened to your advice and removed the second half of the calm opening. Alas, it actually turned out a lot less boring.

But I must frankly admit that I haven't got the slightest idea of what you mean with adding djent groove to the acoustic part after the first chorus (because that was what you meant right?). It changes key and time signature, so just plastering the groove on top of it wouldn't turn out any good at all. I was aiming for a Opeth-esque feel in the acoustic bridge, and if ever recorded, the production on that part would be very empty and spacey. Ah well, I guess things like that doesn't really come across in Guitar Pro, do they?

And I'd love to give the reboot of your song a listen, but you've gotta post it in GP5 format, don't have GP6.

EDIT: Which "big thick chord bit" do you mean? I've got like three different flavors of 'em (26, 98 and 114)

Last edited by GU5T4V : 07-16-2012 at 02:04 PM.
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Old 07-16-2012, 03:22 PM   #4
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^I didnt mean plastering the exact same djent groove, more like, have you heard Periphery's "Ragnarok"?



This one specific part from about 2:20 or so of the song, something along these lines would have sounded awesome from bar 94 or so, stretching two or three reps of the basic ringing out chords, before going onto the stuff you have from bar 106. Oki, no problem, im posting here if you dont mind it.

EDIT: Attached. Keep in mind exporting to GP5 makes the mixing go for a six, so play with the knobs till it sounds good to you

And no, they dont if it helps, I intend the final recording on this to have a Dream Theater esque mix, thick but not uber-br00tz.
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File Type: gp5 Disturbed esque song.gp5 (146.0 KB, 37 views)
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Old 07-16-2012, 06:45 PM   #5
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I actually had a listen to this before I posted my song, but I'm listening to it again as I write this crit. It's actually better this way because I both know what to expect and can recapitulate on any sort of problems I may have had with it or anything I particularly liked.

Starting from the intro, it has a nice atmospheric vibe, with the big, open arpeggios setting the stage for a kind of grandiose verse. But the thing is, it's kind of cut abruptly short by the series riffs that follows it. Don't get me wrong, it's a really cool batch of riffs, and the time changes are all done right and in such a way that it doesn't sound jerky, but just the transition into it leaves a bit of a sour taste in my mouth. Perhaps you could add something in between those two parts to even it out? Even just 4-8 measures of transition would work.

Also, when it goes back into the intro bit, you might want to make it a variation as opposed to just a direct repetition, maybe change the arrangement around a bit. That can have a big effect on how it's perceived, even if it's just a little different.

The clean section is really good for the most part, the only issue I had were the ugly note choices on track 2 at measure 95. I changed it around a bit to something I thought worked a lot better, so I know that it's not the chords themselves but just a few shoddy notes on that one track.

Here's what I did:
http://gyazo.com/6153cbc87b25e080b0....png?1342478109

With those slight changes though, it's one of my favorite parts of the song, that descending chord progression just sounds really fresh after everything that precedes it. Use it or don't, it's entirely up to you.

The next part really goes crazy with the dissonance, but it's not a bad thing like the notes in the previous part were, because it's definitely accomplishing what it sets out to do here.

I like the modulations as it goes into the more straightforward chordal section, especially around 129-135 and so on. Just all the right choices for key changes. One thing I think that whole section could greatly, greatly benefit from, though, is a guitar solo. For me there's nothing cooler than a winding, twisting solo over a myriad of key changes. It just sounds so awesome if it's done right.

All in all, I think the main thing you have to work on here is transitioning between parts. There are more than a couple instances where it just felt like you were being lifted up from one part of the song and immediately plopped into another, as opposed to a graceful glide into the next part. The ideas are all good, though, and you should be proud of this.
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Old 07-16-2012, 07:06 PM   #6
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I agree on the transition between the bombastic part of the intro and the dissonant black metal-esque riff that leads into the groove section - it is abrupt, and it is basically just about chock value. I will consider some descent of sort, maybe just 2 bars of gradually more chaotic guitar runs. I am by no means a perfect composer so all input is appreciated.

Concerning the return of the intro, this is supposed to be the chorus of the song and will contain clean vocals (I actually have muted vocals at track 1), and I think that will be enough to spice it up. Shouldn't get in the way of the vocals, after all.

As for the slight change you've made at the clean part, I think I'll keep it as it is. Sure, it is a sour foul tritone but it's the way I wanted it. Controled chaos, of sort.

For the big rumbling part that follows the (very) dissonant one, I am aiming for a heavy post rock sound at this point. I also have some wild ideas about samples of voices being played here. But if I can't work that out, I might consider a solo. The song sorely lacks one.

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I find it very interesting how differently people perceive the same piece of music. Oh, and by the way - I loved Garden of Sighs. Brilliant song.
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Old 07-17-2012, 10:19 PM   #7
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I love this piece. One of my favorites that I've ever found here. That moving guitar part in the intro just does it for me. Kinda makes me think of somebody returning home after a long time at war or something...
Then the heavy stuff comes in. I love your use of the Octave + 1/2 step. It creates that special type of dissonance.
THen the chorus, where that moving guitar part picks up again.... Beautiful. Very emotional, very awesome.
Then that dissonance in 123-125... Very nasty, very fitting. It wonderfully resolves.
However, I am finding that chorus a bit bland... I'm sure vocals will fix that, but it goes back to the intro kinda unresolved.
And I feel the song is kinda unresolved as well, just kinda ending on that guitar part.

Overall, I love it. The ending needs a bit of resolution, but other than that, almost flawless.
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Old 07-18-2012, 02:10 PM   #8
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The choppy time signature "heavy" break could use more pronounced drumming, just to guide the listener through it, but it still sounded awesome. I loved the major chord arpeggiation afterwards, followed by the beautiful and succinct clean break. The...not quite jazzy, but similar chords you use for the heavy parts also are a nice change of pace from standard dissonance. Like Sonic said, the octave + 1/2 step dissonance was a great touch and sounded awesome.

The chord progression used to carry out the remainder of the song strayed from cliché, which is always a plus. I'm envious of people that can manipulate unique progressions that still sound natural, and when you employ the lead lines over it, it certainly becomes special.

The ending could have had a more bombastic finale just to fit things, but seriously great work.
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Old 07-21-2012, 01:41 PM   #9
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First of all thank you for reviewing my WIP piece.

I really like the intro's simplicity and beauty, up until measure 29, where the flow breaks out of nowhere and the drums like, stop keeping a steady pulse. It's super jagged out of nowhere and it ruins the mood set from the beggining. The guitar ideas themselves are not bad but it need to flow better...

Transition at 57 is also jarred and not very great =(.

I really like the section that comes after though.

The interlude has nice chords but I think you could put a solo or some sort of discerning melody on top of it that would really elevate it and make it beautiful.

I like the chords that come in at 98, I like unusual colored stuff like that. Not sure about the lead in the background on distorted guitar though, it's too far back in the mix and hard to hear what's going on for real.

I like the effect you're going for at 114, I think it could use a little bit of polish but the idea is great and I love that sort of shifting mood buildup. I think it works very well in the style.

I actually like the abrupt transition back to the main theme, it works well there, and the outro works pretty decently.

Overall great ideas, issues in flow and in transitions though that could use some polish.
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Old 07-21-2012, 02:08 PM   #10
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Gotta say I really liked it, especially the parts that start at bar 29 and bar 74. The beginning was great too, really "epic" sounding. I have two concerns, however. One is the transition between bars 28 and 29, its really jarring, but maybe that was the effect you were looking for. Also, I think that the clean guitar section at bar 74 sounds extremely similar to the song "Jeenge", by Infected Mushroom. Maybe its just me, but you might want to look it up.
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Old 07-21-2012, 08:51 PM   #11
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Bleh, sorry for the long wait! Crit in sesh.

Cool intro with an iconic segue. Strings give it either a really unique sound - oppressive enough to lead into the next riff, but also quite uplifting. But I'd be lying if I said that 6/8 ending isn't jarring. Don't get me wrong I like that riff, it just could use a different variation I think.

Yay that string section is back. And this time it leads into a really cool acoustic bit? Very nice. Sparse acoustic breaks can be hard, but you fill in the space with clean guitar and drums nicely. That At the Drive-In chord progression only works because that clean lead prepared me for it; be careful of stuff like that because it was teetering on the edge of just sounding bad rather than being a proper segue.

The big chord bridge was alright, I did like the progression it was just a little plodding. Something either drearily down tempo or a fast break is needed at this point. Luckily you saved it all by just ending it on that string section.

All in all very solid stuff with some kinks that need to be worked out. Great tune.
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Old 07-21-2012, 09:27 PM   #12
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the intro was so lovely. but then bar 26-57... it ruined the whole thing for me.
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Old 07-22-2012, 10:25 AM   #13
GU5T4V
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Thank you all very much for the tips and pointing out what doesn't work in this song. I will try to polish the joints as best as I can and rework the outro. I try to write music that DOESN'T come across as a bunch of ideas sloppily thrown together, but my writing style isn't exactly... focused and coherent. Your input has been much appreciated.
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Old 07-25-2012, 12:28 AM   #14
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Like everyone else said, the intro is a nice lead into something bigger. The fact that there's nothing noting the abrupt change into the next riff kind of caught me off guard, but i did like it.

The time signature changes in the riffing was nice, but the little 6/8 section in bars 37-38 and again in 46-53 sounds off to me, simply because of where the snare hits.

The little guitar part after the repeated intro was pretty sweet too, probably because I happen to like those kinds of breaks in songs.

The big section where (almost) every instrument is playing seems weird, like it almost had no place in it. I still liked it, but maybe not without something leading up to it beforehand. And again the intro. Gotta love that.

So it's a pretty nice song, with a few things to touch up on, but that's just my little take on it.
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