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Old 07-23-2012, 01:57 AM   #61
Hydra150
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Post us a link to a that you like. Preferably not death metal, but just because I hate that shit, not because it doesn't have any harmony to analyse.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Who Sh0t Ya HxO
Actually I agree, I'm really intrigued with the sound that the... D minor chord? I think it is, sound that it gives off... sort of like an evil black metal sound.

Nah man, Dm is sad.
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Old 07-23-2012, 02:00 AM   #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Who Sh0t Ya HxO
Actually I agree, I'm really intrigued with the sound that the... D minor chord? I think it is, sound that it gives off... sort of like an evil black metal sound.

You've got it all wrong, D minor is the saddest of all chords, not the most evil.

Edit: whoa.
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Old 07-23-2012, 02:03 AM   #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Who Sh0t Ya HxO
Actually I agree, I'm really intrigued with the sound that the... D minor chord? I think it is, sound that it gives off... sort of like an evil black metal sound.


If you like that, try the E minor chord...very easy to play, gives that same kind of tonality, but with more strings, more bass/low-end, more crunch (with distortion, of course).
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Old 07-23-2012, 02:05 AM   #64
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^If you are simply directing him to another minor chord using lower notes, bear in mind that he is a metal player so D could be the lowest.
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Old 07-23-2012, 02:07 AM   #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Who Sh0t Ya HxO
I'm assuming TS is topic starter, other forums I go on say OP, original poster, anyways... yes I like Steve Vai, I know all these great musicians know and use chords, specially Vai's stuff, but chords seem like calm and upbeat things to use which works in Vai's case... but I just cant imagine them being used in Death Metal, if so I've probably heard them a bunch of times then without realizing it.

Chords are one of the basic building blocks of music, so you're going to run across them in anything you encounter. If chords are "frustrating the shit out of you", can you explain why? Maybe I missed it, I only gave this a quick read.

If you get some fundamentals of chords and harmony down, you'll be able to see how it's applicable to not only death metal, but any other genre under the sun.
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Old 07-23-2012, 02:09 AM   #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hydra150
^If you are simply directing him to another minor chord using lower notes, bear in mind that he is a metal player so D could be the lowest.


I'm just thinking of the standard open-string D minor vs. the open-string E minor. D minor might be lower musically, but that E minor is going to sound heavier and ballsier because of the bass strings.
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Old 07-23-2012, 02:10 AM   #67
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What I meant was, he is probably dropped or downtuned, so the names and shapes could be different.
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Old 07-23-2012, 02:13 AM   #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hydra150
What I meant was, he is probably dropped or downtuned, so the names and shapes could be different.


Ummm...but he doesn't know basic chords. I'm not trying to make shit even more confusing Besides, learning all the basic chords should come before alternate voicings.
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Old 07-23-2012, 02:53 AM   #69
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You do understand that a chord is simply a grouping of notes?

And so powerchords are chords, but with more notes?

You just play a note and the Perfect Fifth interval at the same time.

You play chords.
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Old 07-23-2012, 03:01 AM   #70
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And so powerchords are chords, but with more notes?

Power chords aren't technically chords, and what do they have more notes than?
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Old 07-23-2012, 11:59 AM   #71
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheHydra
You've got it all wrong, D minor is the saddest of all chords, not the most evil.

Edit: whoa.


Okay I'll specifically tell you what I'm talking about in standard tuning. It's a D minor shape, I don't play the D string however, but you take the D minor shape with your fingers up a whole step and sounds like it goes well in the key of E(different voicing??). Anyways I strum the first three strings and it just strum that shape up and down the fret board to where I can here the evil sound that it can make.

Quote:
Originally Posted by :-D
Chords are one of the basic building blocks of music, so you're going to run across them in anything you encounter. If chords are "frustrating the shit out of you", can you explain why? Maybe I missed it, I only gave this a quick read.

If you get some fundamentals of chords and harmony down, you'll be able to see how it's applicable to not only death metal, but any other genre under the sun.


It's all these babbly terms that I have to remember(diminished, augmented, sus, and WAY too many more) which is why I was never really good at math, not only was it confusing like chords, but there all these terms and steps you have to remember to solve a problem. I guess I just gave up on trying to understand chords and have to accept that I HAVE to learn chord shapes and use them randomly throughout my songs even though I don't understand why or if it would be a right time to use a chord. I personally prefer single notes, nobody wants to hear a strummed chord after strummed chord.

Oh yeah which makes me think of a few questions... how does chords help me create better riffs, riffs with single notes, or how does it help me create better single note playing? What is the relation with chords and single notes... as in how do people know which notes to play in a certain chord that is being played at the time?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hydra150
Post us a link to a that you like. Preferably not death metal, but just because I hate that shit, not because it doesn't have any harmony to analyse.


Alright, how about power metal, this should be rather... 'difficult' to analyze, seeing how they pretty much only use power chords and single note playing.

Favorite band... Iced Earth - Desert Rain

Last edited by Who Sh0t Ya HxO : 07-23-2012 at 12:21 PM.
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Old 07-23-2012, 12:28 PM   #72
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Who Sh0t Ya HxO
Okay I'll specifically tell you what I'm talking about in standard tuning. It's a D minor shape, I don't play the D string however, but you take the D minor shape with your fingers up a whole step and sounds like it goes well in the key of E(different voicing??). Anyways I strum the first three strings and it just strum that shape up and down the fret board to where I can here the evil sound that it can make.

It's all these babbly terms that I have to remember(diminished, augmented, sus, and WAY too many more) which is why I was never really good at math, not only was it confusing like chords, but there all these terms and steps you have to remember to solve a problem. I guess I just gave up on trying to understand chords and have to accept that I HAVE to learn chord shapes and use them randomly throughout my songs even though I don't understand why or if it would be a right time to use a chord. I personally prefer single notes, nobody wants to hear a strummed chord after strummed chord.

Oh yeah which makes me think of a few questions... how does chords help me create better riffs, riffs with single notes, or how does it help me create better single note playing? What is the relation with chords and single notes... as in how do people know which notes to play in a certain chord that is being played at the time?


Yeah when you move that D Minor shape up a whole step, you have an Em Triad. Just like the A B C's D comes after C and E follows D. Again, you know your ABC's? You can learn music and chords, if its all explained to you well, and in such a way that doesn't throw a lot of unneccesary details, in the earnestness of being thorough, as opposed to pacing those things.

Chords can help with all of those because - let's look at it simply:

What makes a lead sound good with a chord progression?

Answer: Same notes in the lead that gel well with the exact same notes in the chord (This is a simplistic beginning point, but an important one)

So, knowing chords can help a lot with leads.

Example:You have a Bm and because (lets say for discussion sakes you're my student and I've taught you how to know the notes every single chord there is) you know that theres a D in that chord/triad, your lead may resolve to a note of D the exact second the chord changes to Bm. Maybe you might then play another note from that triad, or a major 3rd (D#) to the minor 3rd...Now you're playing with chords and finding melody - granted this isnt stuff you'll understand on the first day, but you build a foundation of abilities and skill sets that allow you to accomplish this.

Best,

Sean

PS - By the way did you get my catalog I emailed you over the weekend?
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Old 07-23-2012, 01:27 PM   #73
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Try this as an exercise, nothing too in depth.

First get a piece of paper and draw a fretboard on it with strings.

Use this site as a reference and pick a key, any key will do but Em is a good one to start with seeing as we've been talking about it.

http://www.guitar-chords.org.uk/chords-key-e-minor.html

You'll see that each key has 7 chords, find out how to play them. Don't worry about the notes even at this stage, just do some research and find the shapes. Now there'll be lots of different ways to play them, you can look in books, magazines, google them or ideally use an chord reference app like the UG one or Guitar Toolkit. Find a few examples of each chord in different parts of the fretboard and draw them on your fretboard diagram as dots, don't worry about overlaps, if a note is already marked just fill in the missing ones. Try and fill in up to the 12th fret. This may sound tedious but a big part of understanding and absorbing knoweldge is going out and finding it yourself.

Next, find the diagram for the corresponding scale, E minor in case you'd forgotten...again usual way, google, books. apps etc.

Then, in a different colour start marking out the notes of that scale on the same fretboard diagram.

Do that, then report back and tell us what you discover - trust me, I know this sounds dangerously like schoolwork but you'll get a hell of a lot of benefit out of this relatively simple exercise.
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Old 07-23-2012, 02:40 PM   #74
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TS, do you happen to have any gp5 files of stuff you've written? I would like to use your own material to teach you. I think that your ear knows all this stuff, but you don't have a clue. And that's perfectly fine, but you want to learn, and that makes this easy for us.

If you don't have any of your stuff written down (seriously, you could even just link to a picture from a notebook if you had to), then can you give an example of a song you like?
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Old 07-23-2012, 03:03 PM   #75
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^He did link to a song in his last post. The chords in it seem fairly clear (particularly in the second half)apart from the metallica-esque chord-riffs, typical power metal stuff I geuss. I like the Mario music rip-off half way through it.
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Old 07-23-2012, 03:09 PM   #76
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O H I C I T N A O W

I'll give it a go when I'm not busy.
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Old 07-23-2012, 05:05 PM   #77
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Quote:
Originally Posted by :-D
Power chords aren't technically chords, and what do they have more notes than?


i'm absolutely shocked (and a little disappointed) that the thread didn't turn into an uproar concerning the validity of dyads as actual chords
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Old 07-23-2012, 05:07 PM   #78
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Sssh, dont bring attention to that comment, I think we got away with it.
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Old 07-23-2012, 06:47 PM   #79
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The whole 'a power chord isn't a chord' argument is pointless as harmony will be implied through melody/other instruments.
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Old 07-23-2012, 07:15 PM   #80
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^It's not really an argument, I'm just pointing out that a power chord is not a chord by itself.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Who Sh0t Ya HxO
It's all these babbly terms that I have to remember(diminished, augmented, sus, and WAY too many more) which is why I was never really good at math, not only was it confusing like chords, but there all these terms and steps you have to remember to solve a problem. I guess I just gave up on trying to understand chords and have to accept that I HAVE to learn chord shapes and use them randomly throughout my songs even though I don't understand why or if it would be a right time to use a chord. I personally prefer single notes, nobody wants to hear a strummed chord after strummed chord.

I'm terrible at math too, and I have no problem with any of the above information. From an honest standpoint, you have to stop making excuses as to why you "can't" go learn any of this or why you just have to "accept that you can't learn it" and begin learning. There are plenty of resources on chords both online and in print, and you need to begin doing some work on your own to begin understanding how they function. There are articles on this site that can begin explaining chords and harmony to you as well.

There's really no reason you can't learn this stuff, but it seems to me that you're completely in your own way at the moment. Plenty of people will be happy to help you along, but again you need to stop coming up with reasons as to why this is impossible and just take the first step toward learning.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Who Sh0t Ya HxO
Oh yeah which makes me think of a few questions... how does chords help me create better riffs, riffs with single notes, or how does it help me create better single note playing? What is the relation with chords and single notes... as in how do people know which notes to play in a certain chord that is being played at the time?

Simple answer is that chords = harmony and harmony is present in pretty much anything you'll ever hear, regardless of whether it has parts comprised of individual notes or chords. Learning how chords are constructed and work together gives you one of the fundamental tools toward understanding how music functions, and when you're trying to come up with something on your own, it won't be a process of guess and check; you'll know exactly how to get the sound you're looking for.
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