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Old 07-23-2012, 07:17 PM   #81
Hydra150
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Quote:
Originally Posted by :-D
^It's not really an argument, I'm just pointing out that a power chord is not a chord by itself.

Judging by the length of the semi-regular threads on the issue, some do see it as an argument.
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Old 07-23-2012, 07:18 PM   #82
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some people are silly penisfaces.
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Old 07-23-2012, 07:27 PM   #83
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If you want some inspiration on how learning harmony will help your lead playing, watch this. Marty Friedman is a strange one, he is no theory expert but has a great ear and sense of melody, and understands the importance of harmony/chords.

If you are going to learn theory, there are a few articles on this site that are good to learn from, eg this or these. This site is often recommended for it's lessons and exercises.
And learn the chord progressions of some songs, if you find metal too hard to understand then learn some rock or pop or soul or blues or anything.
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Last edited by Hydra150 : 07-23-2012 at 07:31 PM.
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Old 07-23-2012, 08:15 PM   #84
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Originally Posted by vampirelazarus
TS, do you happen to have any gp5 files of stuff you've written? I would like to use your own material to teach you. I think that your ear knows all this stuff, but you don't have a clue. And that's perfectly fine, but you want to learn, and that makes this easy for us.

If you don't have any of your stuff written down (seriously, you could even just link to a picture from a notebook if you had to), then can you give an example of a song you like?

I don't have any files or notes on the songs that I have created. 2 out of the 3 songs I have created were improvisational solos, and the 3rd one was a song that I created riffs with but I didn't write them down, I just remembered the order of the riffs I practiced when I played them over drum beats from EZ drummer and then improvised the solo at the end. So all in all, when I create a solo song it's improvisational, a song with riffs is remembered and played when recording. They're on YouTube if you want to hear the simplicity of my playing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hydra150
^He did link to a song in his last post. The chords in it seem fairly clear (particularly in the second half)apart from the metallica-esque chord-riffs, typical power metal stuff I geuss. I like the Mario music rip-off half way through it.

lol what, I have not noticed this... what time to be exact? Also "metallica-esque" is an insult. These guys are better than them.

Okay so no chords in that song... should I post another one from a different band that I think might have chords in it?

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Originally Posted by Sean0913
By the way did you get my catalog I emailed you over the weekend?


Yes I did thank you, it's a nice brochure but what am I supposed to do with it? Follow the titles as steps in guitar playing?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hydra150
If you want some inspiration on how learning harmony will help your lead playing, watch this. Marty Friedman is a strange one, he is no theory expert but has a great ear and sense of melody, and understands the importance of harmony/chords.


Haha I've seen some clips of this video on YouTube, he is strange in a funny way.

Last edited by Who Sh0t Ya HxO : 07-23-2012 at 08:33 PM.
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Old 07-23-2012, 08:49 PM   #85
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I assure you that there are chords in that song. I just haven't had time to look at it.
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I can write a coherent tune ... But 3/4? I play rock, not polka.
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Old 07-23-2012, 09:16 PM   #86
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Originally Posted by Who Sh0t Ya HxO
lol what, I have not noticed this... what time to be exact?


2m34 seconds into that live video sounds like a rip off of this theme which was released a few years earlier, the melodies have the same rhythm, contour and exotic Egyptian flavour/theme, although a couple notes may be different.
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Also "metallica-esque" is an insult. These guys are better than them.


Those riffs sound like they could be Metallica to me. I'm no thrash historian, but Metallica were creating that style of riff a decade before that record was made, I'd say 'Metallica-esque' is fairly accurate. Also, don't start comparing bands here, the fact that one is your favourite and another you hate with a fiery passion is irrelevant to this discussion.
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Okay so no chords in that song... should I post another one from a different band that I think might have chords in it?

Post another song if you like, but I assure you there are chord progressions in that song. Imma wait to see if vampirelazarus demonstrates, because I cant be bothered. But for example, I notice that the chorus (starting 3:05) is;

[:Ebm ///| Ebm ///| Db ///| Ebm ///:] (x2)
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Yes I did thank you, it's a nice brochure but what am I supposed to do with it? Follow the titles as steps in guitar playing?

What do you normally do with a brochure? Take a look at what they're sellin, and, if interested, buy the shit. You were lookin to shell out a ton of money for Tom Hess lessons earlier and, while I cant compare their methods as I have never been a student of either, Sean comes off as a much nicer chap with a passion for helping people who want to learn (and I assume people have spelled out the common complaints about Hess earlier in this thread - if not, searchbar his name, there are a few fun threads about him).
Quote:
Haha I've seen some clips of this video on YouTube, he is strange in a funny way.

The man's a genius, and there's a lot to be learned about melody and working with the chords from him.
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But boys will be boys and girls have those eyes
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I'm not gonna post pics of my hot mom.

Last edited by Hydra150 : 07-23-2012 at 09:23 PM.
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Old 07-23-2012, 09:25 PM   #87
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hydra150
2m34 seconds into that live video sounds like a rip off of this theme which was released a few years earlier, the melodies have the same rhythm, contour and exotic Egyptian flavour/theme, although a couple notes may be different.


Those riffs sound like they could be Metallica to me. I'm no thrash historian, but Metallica were creating that style of riff a decade before that record was made, I'd say 'Metallica-esque' is fairly accurate. Also, don't start comparing bands here, the fact that one is your favourite and another you hate with a fiery passion is irrelevant to this discussion.

Post another song if you like, but I assure you there are chord progressions in that song. Imma wait to see if vampirelazarus demonstrates, because I cant be bothered. But for example, I notice that the chorus (starting 3:05) is;

[:Ebm ///| Ebm ///| Db ///| Ebm ///:] (x2)

What do you normally do with a brochure? Take a look at what they're sellin, and, if interested, buy the shit. You were lookin to shell out a ton of money for Tom Hess lessons earlier and, while I cant compare their methods as I have never been a student of either, Sean comes off as a much nicer chap with a passion for helping people who want to learn.

The man's a genius, and there's a lot to be learned about melody and working with the chords from him.

Haha I've never heard that mario music before... it definitely sounds almost the same. That's the phyrigian style ain't it?

I get that all songs have chord progressions, but it doesn't seem they were actually playing chords, more just play the sound of the chord or the key I guess.

Don't get me wrong I like Metallica, it's just like everyone else, they saddened me after the black album.

Last edited by Who Sh0t Ya HxO : 07-23-2012 at 09:28 PM.
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Old 07-23-2012, 09:27 PM   #88
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Do you disagree with the chords I wrote out for the chorus?
Grab an acoustic guitar and strum along;

http://jguitar.com/chord.gif?define...ats&chord=Minorhttp://jguitar.com/chord.gif?define...ats&chord=Major

Not only the chorus but the whole section starting at 4:41 up until the chorus at 5:30 is simply alternating those two chords. Tell me that you can hear that?

If you were to try and play an Eb major chord and a Db minor chord instead, it would sound like crap, even though the guitarists in the song are only using fifth/powerchords (actually I think one of em is using thirds, in which ase they together are playing full triad/chords), the harmony is there even if they arent playing the full thing all the time.

Edit: Also, in another of their songs, check out the rhythm guitarist playing chords, clearly visible at 1:30.
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But boys will be boys and girls have those eyes
that'll cut you to ribbons, sometimes
and all you can do is just wait by the moon
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I'm not gonna post pics of my hot mom.

Last edited by Hydra150 : 07-23-2012 at 09:53 PM.
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Old 07-23-2012, 09:29 PM   #89
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Who Sh0t Ya HxO
I get that all songs have chord progressions, but it doesn't seem they were actually playing chords, more just play the sound of the chord or the key I guess.

Quote:
Originally Posted by :-D
chords = harmony and harmony is present in pretty much anything you'll ever hear, regardless of whether it has parts comprised of individual notes or chords. Learning how chords are constructed and work together gives you one of the fundamental tools toward understanding how music functions, and when you're trying to come up with something on your own, it won't be a process of guess and check; you'll know exactly how to get the sound you're looking for.

This still holds true.
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Old 07-23-2012, 09:32 PM   #90
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I'm glad you have the brochure. At least now you know your options and have enough to make an informed decision. Looks like you're good to go...the rest is up to you

Best,

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Old 07-24-2012, 02:37 AM   #91
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Originally Posted by Hydra150
Do you disagree with the chords I wrote out for the chorus?
Grab an acoustic guitar and strum along;

http://jguitar.com/chord.gif?define...ats&chord=Minorhttp://jguitar.com/chord.gif?define...ats&chord=Major

Not only the chorus but the whole section starting at 4:41 up until the chorus at 5:30 is simply alternating those two chords. Tell me that you can hear that?

If you were to try and play an Eb major chord and a Db minor chord instead, it would sound like crap, even though the guitarists in the song are only using fifth/powerchords (actually I think one of em is using thirds, in which ase they together are playing full triad/chords), the harmony is there even if they arent playing the full thing all the time.

Edit: Also, in another of their songs, check out the rhythm guitarist playing chords, clearly visible at 1:30.


At first I disagreed because it didn't sound right, and then I forgot or realized that the chord pictures were meant to be in standard tuning, and Iced Earth plays in Eb tuning so that's why it wasn't making sense. So when I brought the chords up a half step, then it made harmony with what they were playing, yes I agree.

But like I said before, I get that chord progressions are throughout every song that I hear but I don't see them playing the chords, they play notes that sound good with the chord that could be behind it but no one is actually playing it. So what's the purpose of learning that chord if no one is going to play it?

Idk what you mean by thirds but if it's like reverse power chords but with 2 strings then yes the rhythm guitarist is doing that. Like where he puts his ring finger on 7th fret Ab string, and index finger on 5th fret Db string? and then it goes ring finger 5th fret, Ab string, index finger 4th fret, Db string. Which by the way those two riffs right there are what is making those Ebm and Db chord sounds thus removing the need for those two chords anyway since they are being made but in a different way.


Also gotta say that the song you posted of him playing a chord is their best song and if you could point out more chords on that song that's cool, but what is the chord he is playing at that time you posted? I just seen them as random single notes that sounded good together. Didn't think he was picking out a chord.

Quote:
Originally Posted by :-D
Learning how chords are constructed and work together gives you one of the fundamental tools toward understanding how music functions, and when you're trying to come up with something on your own, it won't be a process of guess and check; you'll know exactly how to get the sound you're looking for.


This is great news because I always wondered how musicians created great music just by doing what I do, which is guess and check... I'm sick of playing around seeing what sounds good together, I always thought that other musicians did the same thing. So grasping this knowledge will allow me to unlock the creativity that has been built up for so long? being able to play what I hear in my head?

Last edited by Who Sh0t Ya HxO : 07-24-2012 at 02:43 AM.
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Old 07-24-2012, 03:19 AM   #92
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Generally, the reason those two notes sound good together is because they are chord tones, meaning they are notes from the chords.

You also got the thirds thing down pretty good.


Also, during the intro of the song you posted, Im hearing pretty much what Hydra posted, but.... I also think their is an F in there somewhere. My ear isnt the greatest though. Looks and sounds like they are just playing an Eb with some chord tones, then repeating on the new chord....
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I can write a coherent tune ... But 3/4? I play rock, not polka.
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Old 07-24-2012, 04:56 AM   #93
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Please learn your intervals for what they are. I'm no theory buff in the slightest but even I cringed when you described thirds as being "reverse powerchords on two strings". Learn the fretboard, and so learn WHY they are thirds.

Also, how the hell can dyads not be considered chords?

I've come to the conclusion theory is a lot like philosophy. You come here with the goal of learning WHY stuff happens but then you have to bitch with other people about it forever.
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Old 07-24-2012, 05:03 AM   #94
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Originally Posted by Who Sh0t Ya HxO
This is great news because I always wondered how musicians created great music just by doing what I do, which is guess and check... I'm sick of playing around seeing what sounds good together, I always thought that other musicians did the same thing. So grasping this knowledge will allow me to unlock the creativity that has been built up for so long? being able to play what I hear in my head?

If you train your ears properly as you do this, yes. There are two main components to this: one, you learn the theory behind chords and harmony so that you essentially know what's going on in the music. To complement that, you play around with certain examples and pay attention to how certain progressions, arpeggios and whatnot sound so that you're able to more easily identify them by ear.
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Also, how the hell can dyads not be considered chords?

I didn't say that. I said power chords are not chords. I generally wouldn't consider a dyad a chord either, but there's a stronger argument to be made for certain dyads than for power chords.
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Old 07-24-2012, 05:18 AM   #95
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Doesnt a dyad = two notes and therefore a power chord, containing only the R and P5 make it a dyad, and as a chord is simply a grouping of notes is a powerchord not a chord?
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Old 07-24-2012, 05:23 AM   #96
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Doesnt a dyad = two notes and therefore a power chord, containing only the R and P5 make it a dyad, and as a chord is simply a grouping of notes is a powerchord not a chord?

All power chords are dyads, not all dyads are power chords - that's what I was getting at.

Some people define a chord as any grouping of notes, myself and many others don't. It's just common modern practice vs. classical definition though, that's all.
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Old 07-25-2012, 02:39 AM   #97
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I feel like I'm understanding more about chords just talking about them through this thread... thanks a lot guys for the help, all this talk has given me more motivation to learn about chords, but that doesn't mean I'm not going to struggle still.
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Old 07-25-2012, 03:01 AM   #98
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It's perfectly fine to struggle, don't worry about that; that's largely what this forum is here for anyway.

Just keep working through it and you'll see results. Don't expect anything to come way too quickly and keep putting in the required work to understand the material and you'll be fine.
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Old 07-25-2012, 03:05 AM   #99
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Just keep at it man, it'll all come together. At least that's one of the cool things about guitar, you'll never lack anything new to learn. Guitar's a tough instrument to learn, but if it wasn't, then everybody would be Steve Vai. And that'd be no fun.
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Old 07-25-2012, 06:13 AM   #100
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Check this out;

It's you.
The chords for that track are;
[: Dm ///| Bb ///| C ///| Dm ///:]
[Dm ///| Bb ///| C /// | A7 / Bb C ] - middle section variation
Were you aware of those chords? Did you play the backing or is that a track you got from someplace? How did you come up with the progression?
Being aware of the harmony and targeting chord tones in your solos will make your playing much more sophisticated sounding.

Btw I hear a lot of Maiden and Yngwie influence in there
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Last edited by Hydra150 : 07-25-2012 at 06:25 AM.
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