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Old 07-21-2012, 12:07 PM   #21
505088K
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oh... now it should work.
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Old 07-21-2012, 12:14 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jacobrivers8
I guess I don't quite understand what counterpoints are all about because i personally don't understand why there are "rules" to counterpoints. If I compose a melody and then compose another melody over top of the other is it simply not a counterpoint if i disregard the rules?


Yes, counterpoint is the relationship between any two independent voices (i.e., not in parallel motion the whole time), whether or not they follow these rules. But it's not species counterpoint. Species counterpoint is not music, it's an exercise. Not to say that one can't learn from it, and incorporate elements of it within their own style, but practically all western music since its advent (and probably a considerable amount of what came before, too) will depart in some way, whether it's simple rule bending, or fundamental differences.
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Old 07-21-2012, 01:48 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jacobrivers8
I guess I don't quite understand what counterpoints are all about because i personally don't understand why there are "rules" to counterpoints. If I compose a melody and then compose another melody over top of the other is it simply not a counterpoint if i disregard the rules?


you can try! it's still a counterpoint, but the best sounding counterpoint (music and exercise) is composed with similar rules in mind. give it a shot!

first off, i highly recommend everyone does as i do (at least for first species counterpoint, you can keep doing it later if it helps) and write in the intervals. use the lyrics function -- select a note and hit ctrl+L. it helps you be aware of what you're writing, as well as visualize it easier.

and i actually edited mine - i decided there was a better way to begin, since the tie in the beginning might give the impression that there is temporarily only one voice. i also flattened a B, as has been discussed earlier in the thread. i think it sounds better this way. opinions?

griff, i like yours! you make me think i should use more similar motion

juckfush, you do have a lot of 11ths. 4ths are considered a dissonance (at least until you get to three-voice counterpoint), so they should be avoided. you should take a look at bar 5 -- there are two concerns there. firstly, your spacing is much too wide. it computes to a sixteenth. secondly, a sixteenth is a dissonance, and therefore isn't permitted. bar 7 i similar, actually. remember to keep your spacing to a thirteenth (absolute maximum). it's generally advised that your spacing should regularly be no more than a tenth. and remember, we're working in alto clef!

hail, you use a lot of leaps. i count two leaps of a third, two leaps of a fifth, and one leap of an octave. and one of those fifth leaps continues in the same direction. try to keep it a little more stepwise. leaps give the sound a lot of diversity, but should be used a little more sparingly. also, F to A is a M10, not a m10 (bar 7).

hydra, if the counterpoint is written above the cantus firmus, put it on the top staff. that was surprisingly hard to read and analyze . i don't see anything wrong with it, though. and if we revive the fugue thread, i want in.

505088, you might want to opt to make the edit i made - starting on a unison and jumping the counterpoint down an octave. one of the reasons i stated earlier, but for you, there's another -- you don't want to tie the same note twice in an exercise. i know this is a mode, but you don't want too much pitch-centeredness.

you guys want to try first species again with another cantus firmus? or would you rather move on to second species? i'll leave it up to you to decide.

and if anyone wants to come in and we're on second or third or whatever species, you're welcome to start on first species while everyone else is on another species. this thread isn't going to close until it inevitably becomes a mode war.
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Old 07-21-2012, 01:57 PM   #24
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Let's move on to second species, first species is boring.
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Old 07-21-2012, 02:19 PM   #25
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Are we using the same CF for second species?

Feeling like a first year music student right now.
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Old 07-21-2012, 02:23 PM   #26
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Old 07-21-2012, 02:41 PM   #27
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I'm a total noob at this, and would not be surprised if I've broken a few rules along the way:
http://www.noteflight.com/scores/vi...effbc5e011d9143
Now, woop my inexperienced ass, I want to learn as much as possible!
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Old 07-21-2012, 03:04 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by griffRG7321
Feeling like a first year music student right now.


oh, the memories.

sure, let's use the same CF for second species.

so in case anyone doesn't know, where first species is note against note, second species is two notes against one.

rules for second species counterpoint:
  • the rules of first species counterpoint still apply.
  • dissonance may be introduced on the second note in the measures of a counterpoint, but the first note in a measure must be consonant with the cantus firmus.
  • the counterpoint may begin with either a perfect consonance or a half note rest.
  • the counterpoint may not leap into nor out of a dissonant interval.
  • parallel perfect intervals on consecutive strong beats are forbidden.

if something's unclear, questions are welcome!
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Old 07-21-2012, 03:42 PM   #29
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^I'd add that only passing dissonances are allowed
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Old 07-21-2012, 08:11 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by griffRG7321
^I'd add that only passing dissonances are allowed


neighboring, as well.

everything else is covered by rule #4 - the counterpoint may not leap into nor out of a dissonant interval.

to clarify to everyone else -- if you choose to use a dissonance, the motion involved (whatever it may be) MUST be stepwise in the counterpoint.

here's my contribution: http://www.noteflight.com/scores/vi...f4503342e78c0a5

EDIT: as i demonstrated, in the second to last measure, you can choose to use the leading tone as a whole note. originally i wasn't going to, but the best counterpoint there would have been E - C# - D; had i used that, i would have had parallel octaves on the strong beats in measures 9 and 10, so that's a no go. i opted instead to use the leading tone as a whole note.
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Old 07-21-2012, 08:26 PM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AeolianWolf
neighboring, as well.



Hmm, Schubert and Fux only allowing passing in second species, what treatise are you using?
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Old 07-21-2012, 09:22 PM   #32
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http://www.noteflight.com/scores/vi...afdd729d2220a33


I probably made some stupit mistakes because It's really late right now.

Yeah I'm aware of these parallel octaves in the last 2 measures that you were talking about in your post too, but I decided to just keep it that way because I think it sounds better.

And my counterpoint starts on the third which sounds a bit weird, is that ok or is it better to just make it a rest?
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Old 07-21-2012, 09:30 PM   #33
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I was writing a 2nd species in G minor before this thread was posted, but I don't think the program I'm using can capture images of the score.
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Old 07-21-2012, 09:36 PM   #34
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Screw it, I'll sign up with this website everyone seems to be using.
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Old 07-21-2012, 10:28 PM   #35
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@ Aeolian wolf and National_Anthem ... thanks for explaining that guys!! that sounds like something interesting i might want to learn and include in my music in the future thanks
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Old 07-22-2012, 02:23 AM   #36
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I didn't follow any particular guidelines for what kind of counterpoint to write (or I missed this above in the wall of text), but here's what I wrote over the past few hours:

http://www.noteflight.com/scores/vi...588945b1ffbd0c0

It's a full four-part, chorale-style texture. It's started as a second species exersize with the cantus firmus as half-notes in the soprano, and a quarter-note counter-melody against it in the bass. Then I filled in the inner voices.

I think that the beginning may be a bit weak, since I use a deceptive half-cadence while having a suspension on the V. Perhaps I should reconsider remaking it into a full cadence.

Lemme know what ya think and if there's anything more I could do to this. I'm basically content for the time being but am open to changing it.
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Old 07-22-2012, 08:20 AM   #37
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Another for you, same method, this time in Bb major:

http://www.noteflight.com/scores/vi...aef1#o1/4/2/2/0
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Old 07-22-2012, 08:39 AM   #38
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Is this valid? http://www.noteflight.com/scores/vi...934e0b41d8ad8fd

It's the first time I'm doing something like this, so any constructive critisism is appreciated.
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Old 07-22-2012, 01:22 PM   #39
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My attempt at 2nd species: http://www.noteflight.com/scores/vi...353b06946add6e2

And I still wouldn't mind some feedback on the first I posted.

Also, how do you prevent (or remove) noteflight from making a new measure when you fill the last?
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Old 07-22-2012, 04:01 PM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brainpolice2
I didn't follow any particular guidelines for what kind of counterpoint to write (or I missed this above in the wall of text), but here's what I wrote over the past few hours:

http://www.noteflight.com/scores/vi...588945b1ffbd0c0

What's weakening it is some unapproached voiceleading in the inner voices. Also be careful of the unprepared 6/4's from the bass, which happened too often. The weakest parts were m3-4.

And I don't know if you just randomly threw in that q = 61, but this is bad practice. Stick to the standard metronome grid. The closest to your choice would be 60 or 63.


My suggestions:
http://www.noteflight.com/scores/vi...8071147baed96d1
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