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View Poll Results: Scottish Independence
I'm from America and I say yes 22 14.47%
I'm from America and I say no 6 3.95%
I'm from America and I don't care/know 28 18.42%
I'm from Europe and I say yes 8 5.26%
I'm from Europe and I say no 8 5.26%
I'm from Europe and I don't care 9 5.92%
I'm from the UK specifically and I say yes 23 15.13%
I'm from the UK specifically and I say no 24 15.79%
I'm from the UK specifically and I don't care 24 15.79%
Voters: 152. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 08-10-2012, 05:34 PM   #41
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If we go we're gonna have a bad time. Honestly Alex Salmond wants to make us join the euro even though we'd probably collapse in 6 months. And he wants to give the vote to teenagers which is the worst decision he could make because there's a lot of racist patriotic dumbasses who want independence when they cant even spell it. I also don't want the embarrassment of asking to join the UK again when we start fall apart.
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Old 08-10-2012, 05:47 PM   #42
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There's a lot of bullshit in this thread.

First off - Scotland gives about the same to the UK as what it takes - some economists say we get slightly more, some say we get slightly less (it's very hard to get an unbiased view). But since these experts can't agree, I think it's safe to assume that we get more or less the same as we put in.

A lot of this is based off oil, which of course isn't infinite. There should, however, be enough to last for a few decades and I'm pretty sure that's what Salmond will use to get us through the first years of independence, if it happens. One major factor Scotland has in its favour is very large natural resources of renewable energy (wind, tidal, wave. Fuck all solar because the sun hates Scotland and we see it about 3 days a year) - if Salmond etc. are sensible we'll invest heavily in this in the coming years (independence or not). We could realistically end up in a situation where we produce way more energy than we use, which is obviously a great thing for an economy.

Add to all this that Scotland is already a highly developed country with many industries, I think it's pretty likely that we could survive as an independent country. The question of should we be independent is more complex, really.

There is definitely an element of anti-Englishness for no other reason than 'fuck them English bastards'. There's also the fact that we are quite different politically - the Tories 'won' the last election, we have a Tory PM, yet they only got one seat in Scotland. So we have a Prime Minister that practically nobody in the country voted for, which is a decent argument for independence.


There's a lot more to it, obviously, but hopefully that is in some way interesting for anyone interested in this
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Old 08-10-2012, 05:48 PM   #43
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http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-16477990
FWIW, the public sector also spends more per capita in London and in Northern Ireland than it does in Scotland.


Unfair comparison. In London, we're, at least twice as good as your average human. In Scotland, they're barely worth half a person. Do the numbers account for that?
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Old 08-10-2012, 05:48 PM   #44
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What EXACTLY would that accomplish?

No developed country is truly independent ever since global economy started functioning.
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Old 08-10-2012, 05:49 PM   #45
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Unfair comparison. In London, we're, at least twice as good as your average human. In Scotland, they're barely worth half a person. Do the numbers account for that?

Don't judge us all by Glasgwegian standards
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Old 08-10-2012, 05:51 PM   #46
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I think there's some good points for independence. Like the nuclear shit that's up here, being rid of that would be splendid.
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Old 08-10-2012, 05:56 PM   #47
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I think there's some good points for independence. Like the nuclear shit that's up here, being rid of that would be splendid.

Unless you live around Garelochhead or Helensborough, because that'll take around 3000 jobs out of the local economy.
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Old 08-10-2012, 05:56 PM   #48
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So we have a Prime Minister that practically nobody in the country voted for, which is a decent argument for independence.



If that's the case, then the US would be split into 50 different countries.
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Old 08-10-2012, 05:56 PM   #49
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Originally Posted by Random88
There is definitely an element of anti-Englishness for no other reason than 'fuck them English bastards'. There's also the fact that we are quite different politically - the Tories 'won' the last election, we have a Tory PM, yet they only got one seat in Scotland. So we have a Prime Minister that practically nobody in the country voted for, which is a decent argument for independence.


There's a lot more to it, obviously, but hopefully that is in some way interesting for anyone interested in this
So, what you're saying is...some people in Scotland would rather you be Canada, all sucking on England's teat still while having your own PM? (I dare a Canadian to tell me that Canada and the rest of the Commonwealth don't suck on England's teat. I will end you!) You all have your own Parliament, which basically passes laws for Scotland alone. Who gives a fuck?

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Originally Posted by Aralingh
What EXACTLY would that accomplish?

No developed country is truly independent ever since global economy started functioning.

LOLWAT?! Apparently, the ability to pass your own laws means no one is truly independent. Gtfo here, mang!
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Old 08-10-2012, 05:57 PM   #50
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Originally Posted by gabcd86
Unfair comparison. In London, we're, at least twice as good as your average human. In Scotland, they're barely worth half a person. Do the numbers account for that?

Don't judge them all on Edinburgh people standards.
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Old 08-10-2012, 05:59 PM   #51
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Originally Posted by crazysam23_Atax
So, what you're saying is...some people in Scotland would rather you be Canada, all sucking on England's teat still while having your own PM? (I dare a Canadian to tell me that Canada and the rest of the Commonwealth don't suck on England's teat. I will end you!) You all have your own Parliament, which basically passes laws for Scotland alone. Who gives a fuck?

As things stand, it's pretty much a kiddy parliament, which gets to decide how to spend it's pocket money, and doesn't get a say on a large number of subjects.
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Old 08-10-2012, 06:02 PM   #52
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If that's the case, then the US would be split into 50 different countries.

I can see your point in that it's part of living in a democracy that not everyone gets their way, but you've oversimplified it - you didn't take into account the huge historical/cultural element. Scotland has a much bigger social/cultural identity than most, if not all, the US states, so it's there's a bigger resentment to having a PM nobody voted for.

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Originally Posted by crazysam23_Atax
So, what you're saying is...some people in Scotland would rather you be Canada, all sucking on England's teat still while having your own PM? (I dare a Canadian to tell me that Canada and the rest of the Commonwealth don't suck on England's teat. I will end you!) You all have your own Parliament, which basically passes laws for Scotland alone. Who gives a fuck?

No - what I'm saying is that people want to be completely independant, with a PM chosen by and for the people of Scotland. And there are many things the Scottish Parliament can't do - although one option that keeps getting mentioned is so called 'devo-max, which would give us vastly increased political powers, but still being in the Union.


I still haven't made my mind up which way to vote - just trying to show some of the arguments I hear
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Old 08-10-2012, 06:03 PM   #53
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I was 'let's the Scot's decide' until it's become pretty obvious that leading, campaigning Unionists are nasty sophists who should leave these matters almost entirely to the Scottish. Now I want the Scots to vote for independence, mostly out of spite against the unionists.
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Originally Posted by Aralingh
What EXACTLY would that accomplish?

No developed country is truly independent ever since global economy started functioning.

The Scottish on the whole are predominately around the centre-left (roughly), whilst England, who have the most MPs in the Houses of Parliament, and take most ministerial positions, who make decisions for the whole of the UK, are predominately around the centre-right (roughly). (The English are actually pretty conservative - the Welsh and the Scottish are more left wing, and shamefully I barely know anything about the Northern Irish...) The idea that Scotland will be able to shape up its own destiny much better according to Scottish desires and interest most likely is correct.
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Old 08-10-2012, 06:03 PM   #54
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The only reason England are against Scottish independence is that they're jealous of our beautiful mountains
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Old 08-10-2012, 06:05 PM   #55
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The only reason England are against Scottish independence is that they're jealous of our beautiful mountains

They also don't want to shut off the supply line of the glorious substance know as Irn-Bru.
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Old 08-10-2012, 06:08 PM   #56
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Corby contains enough Scottishness for our needs, y'all can retreat to your mountains and wrestle with your fathers over which of your sisters you get to marry 'til you need us again.
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Old 08-10-2012, 06:08 PM   #57
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I was 'let's the Scot's decide' until it's become pretty obvious that leading, campaigning Unionists are nasty sophists who should leave these matters almost entirely to the Scottish. Now I want the Scots to vote for independence, mostly out of spite against the unionists.

The Scottish on the whole are predominately around the centre-left (roughly), whilst England, who have the most MPs in the Houses of Parliament, and take most ministerial positions, who make decisions for the whole of the UK, are predominately around the centre-right (roughly). (The English are actually pretty conservative - the Welsh and the Scottish are more left wing, and shamefully I barely know anything about the Northern Irish...) The idea that Scotland will be able to shape up its own destiny much better according to Scottish desires and interest most likely is correct.


Oh well, in that case

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Old 08-10-2012, 06:09 PM   #58
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Corby contains enough Scottishness for our needs, y'all can retreat to your mountains and wrestle with your fathers over which of your sisters you get to marry 'til you need us again.

You guys have Norfolk, don't talk to us about incest.
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Old 08-10-2012, 06:09 PM   #59
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I can see your point in that it's part of living in a democracy that not everyone gets their way, but you've oversimplified it - you didn't take into account the huge historical/cultural element. Scotland has a much bigger social/cultural identity than most, if not all, the US states, so it's there's a bigger resentment to having a PM nobody voted for.


I've oversimplified it? You realize that Texas' population is 5 times that of Scotland, and I won't even get started on the size. And there's definitely a Texan culture (not that we're proud of that).
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Old 08-10-2012, 06:11 PM   #60
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I've oversimplified it? You realize that Texas' population is 5 times that of Scotland, and I won't even get started on the size. And there's definitely a Texan culture (not we're proud of that).

But the Texan culture isn't superimposed over American culture.
I'd bet they still go nuts on July 4th, even though Texas was still in Mexico when independence was declared.
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