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View Poll Results: Scottish Independence
I'm from America and I say yes 22 14.47%
I'm from America and I say no 6 3.95%
I'm from America and I don't care/know 28 18.42%
I'm from Europe and I say yes 8 5.26%
I'm from Europe and I say no 8 5.26%
I'm from Europe and I don't care 9 5.92%
I'm from the UK specifically and I say yes 23 15.13%
I'm from the UK specifically and I say no 24 15.79%
I'm from the UK specifically and I don't care 24 15.79%
Voters: 152. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 08-10-2012, 06:42 PM   #81
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slapsymcdougal
As things stand, it's pretty much a kiddy parliament, which gets to decide how to spend it's pocket money, and doesn't get a say on a large number of subjects.
Then why the hell even have it? Jeese, fuck a PM. Let's make ya'll a real parliament.

Also, sounds like the English House of Lords, aka "useless".
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Old 08-10-2012, 06:46 PM   #82
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Originally Posted by crazysam23_Atax
Then why the hell even have it? Jeese, fuck a PM. Let's make ya'll a real parliament.

Also, sounds like the English House of Lords, aka "useless".

There are plenty of Scots, Welsh and Irish in that house.
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Old 08-10-2012, 06:49 PM   #83
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Originally Posted by slapsymcdougal
There are plenty of Scots, Welsh and Irish in that house.

My bad. Still, that doesn't make the House of Lords any less useless.
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Old 08-10-2012, 06:50 PM   #84
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Originally Posted by crazysam23_Atax
My bad. Still, that doesn't make the House of Lords any less useless.


Why even bother talking about stuff you have absolutely no knowledge of?
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Old 08-10-2012, 06:51 PM   #85
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Originally Posted by crazysam23_Atax
My bad. Still, that doesn't make the House of Lords any less useless.

If having second house to scrutinize legislation is useless, then yea, I guess it's useless.
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Old 08-10-2012, 06:52 PM   #86
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Originally Posted by crazysam23_Atax
My bad. Still, that doesn't make the House of Lords any less useless.


Possibly, but that has no relevance to the point of Scottish independence.
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Old 08-10-2012, 06:53 PM   #87
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Originally Posted by gabcd86
Why even bother talking about stuff you have absolutely no knowledge of?

The House of Lords has no real power. They haven't for a few centuries. That's the job of the House of Commons.

Ergo, useless. Don't try to argue otherwise.

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Possibly, but that has no relevance to the point of Scottish independence.

Eh, true. I was merely saying that the Scottish Parliament is about as useful as the House of Lords. Point being, why not just strengthen the powers of the Scottish Parliament, so you have some actual power up there?
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Last edited by crazysam23_Atax : 08-10-2012 at 06:55 PM.
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Old 08-10-2012, 06:54 PM   #88
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Originally Posted by crazysam23_Atax
The House of Lords has no real power. They haven't for a few centuries. That's the job of the House of Commons.

Ergo, useless. Don't try to argue otherwise.



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Old 08-10-2012, 06:55 PM   #89
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crazysam23_Atax
The House of Lords has no real power. They haven't for a few centuries. That's the job of the House of Commons.

Ergo, useless. Don't try to argue otherwise.


They scrutinise legislation and can hold up poorly drafted bills. In the past parliament, given the particularities of the coalition, and their general incompetence, they've provided a valuable moderator.

Just a hint - when trying to be condescending, it helps to be in a position of greater knowledge.
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Old 08-10-2012, 07:01 PM   #90
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I couldn't give a toss, it's not my place to comment on Scottish national identity.
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Old 08-10-2012, 07:04 PM   #91
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I couldn't give a toss, it's not my place to comment on Scottish national identity.


And you call yourself an Englishman? What is wrong with you?
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Old 08-10-2012, 07:18 PM   #92
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Originally Posted by gabcd86
They scrutinise legislation and can hold up poorly drafted bills. In the past parliament, given the particularities of the coalition, and their general incompetence, they've provided a valuable moderator.

Just a hint - when trying to be condescending, it helps to be in a position of greater knowledge.

I'm not trying to be condescending, I'm merely trying to point out that, if you have two houses, it's best if one house can actually do more than "scrutinize" (US spelling) bills. A bicameral legislation doesn't do much if one house has more power than the other.
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Old 08-10-2012, 07:23 PM   #93
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Can't the House of Lords just delay stuff for a while, send it back to the Commons, and then it gets through eventually? Swear this happening with the fox hunting ban.
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Old 08-10-2012, 07:27 PM   #94
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Scottish independence is a baaad idear.
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Old 08-10-2012, 07:28 PM   #95
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Independence could improve income levels in Scotland. Any increase in barriers would give an incentive for companies to set up a firm there. It may decrease growth in the long run though.
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Old 08-10-2012, 07:29 PM   #96
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Can't the House of Lords just delay stuff for a while, send it back to the Commons, and then it gets through eventually? Swear this happening with the fox hunting ban.

Pretty much.

But the Lords delaying something highlights that the bill isn't exactly perfect in its current form and so (in theory) creates public pressure on the commons to amend it or abandon it.

For Fox hunting, the legislation had a large amount of public support anyway.

The legislation was meant to take away power from the unelected house and put it firmly in the hands of the commons.
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Old 08-10-2012, 07:43 PM   #97
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Originally Posted by crazysam23_Atax
I'm not trying to be condescending, I'm merely trying to point out that, if you have two houses, it's best if one house can actually do more than "scrutinize" (US spelling) bills. A bicameral legislation doesn't do much if one house has more power than the other.


That doesn't make it useless, which was what you said. It's not supposed to have power, power rests in the elected house.
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Old 08-10-2012, 07:45 PM   #98
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Normally I'd be thinking 'yes definitely!' but with Scotland I'm not sure. They have their own parliament and judicial system, and they at least get to refer to Scotland as a country. I think it would only cause problems for Scotland, if it wouldn't I'd be okay with independence.

Edit: And yes, I know Scottish parliament isn't the same as the British parliament.

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Old 08-10-2012, 07:49 PM   #99
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I'm indifferent, but said yes in the poll.

Rebellion is fun

But in all seriousness, I think the quality of life will lower a fair bit in Scotland if this goes through. I can't imagine them being able to afford the same luxuries when they can only rely on their own tax money.

I'd happily donate some jenever to Scotland though.

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Old 08-10-2012, 07:52 PM   #100
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Can I just ask, with all seriousness, what really is the point of Scotland gaining independence? I don't see how it truly benefits Scotland other than perhaps helping the public's national spirit. Scotland isn't oppressed by England, its culture is rather widely celebrated throughout the UK. Economically it would be no better off, politically it would gain some liberties, but then the political possibilities aren't being discussed as widely as they should be. I just don't see how it would gain greatly from independence, rather than simply rallying for greater political rights over itself.
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