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Old 08-31-2012, 03:09 PM   #21
due 07
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Wait, so does yr drummer just not want to write his own parts or what? If that's the case then that's kinda lame.

But if you mean he won't help with the actual songwriting, then it's no big deal. Like you can't expect someone to help write songs if they don't want to.
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Old 08-31-2012, 06:07 PM   #22
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Me and my bands drummer are the ones who write everything, so I guess we're a bit different in that sense. I write the melodic instruments and he arranges stuff, throws out ideas and writes the rhythmns
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Old 09-01-2012, 01:18 AM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by due 07
Wait, so does yr drummer just not want to write his own parts or what? If that's the case then that's kinda lame.

But if you mean he won't help with the actual songwriting, then it's no big deal. Like you can't expect someone to help write songs if they don't want to.


He does **** all, will hear our parts we've already written and then sit there.

I had to ****ing ask him to go get sticks twenty minutes in last time. We had all our parts, played it through once, and then realised he hadn't hit shit.

Quote:
Originally Posted by corza334
When I write riffs, the drummer contributes beats as quick as I can write. It really helps actually haha.


And this is what I wish mine did. Now imagine how amazing the last guy was, when he could write the melodic stuff AS WELL!

Guess I can't get hung up on that though.
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Old 09-01-2012, 03:32 AM   #24
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Originally Posted by Spaztikko
He does **** all, will hear our parts we've already written and then sit there.

I had to ****ing ask him to go get sticks twenty minutes in last time. We had all our parts, played it through once, and then realised he hadn't hit shit.

But when he does play, does he write his own drum parts?

It sounds like he's just frustrated due to boredom and not being interested in the writing process. Just write and finish songs as much as you can before practice or like guitarpro yr songs and send them to him so he's ready beforehand. IDK bruh, he sounds annoying.
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Old 09-03-2012, 03:53 AM   #25
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Sorry man...I'm gonna press on here.... playing devils advocate... nothing personal...

What exactly is "writing" for a drummer? Its beats with fills in between. Not saying he wont come up with a sick sounding beat/fill that inspires everyone.... but generally speaking he really needs a complete song structure so he can work out where he can place those fancy bits of playing

When he does play, is he good? If yes...then hes waiting for the song to be ready for him to start adding his parts.... or theres a personal thing going on. If no... well...that comes down to whether anyone is in the band or not...can they do the job?
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Old 09-03-2012, 07:30 AM   #26
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Yes. Basic beats are basic beats, and it usually comes down to the fills that make a drummer earn a couple of stripes.

Sometimes drummers can be a PITA. It makes ya wonder if a band might be better off with a backing drum track playing while a mannequin sits behind the kit. But I guess that wouldn't be very metal...
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Old 09-03-2012, 08:02 AM   #27
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^^^^ Sounds like you guys haven't played with many drummers, or at least good ones.

The pairing of a drummer and bassist is integral to any band if you want it to have any sort of pulse or movement. People don't bob their heads to a strummed chord, they don't dance to 8 fingered tapping. A good drummer will determine whether your band is tight or not either, they're the person who know how fast/slow the song goes. They can place greater emphasis on different parts of the song too.

So their portion of writing is really giving the overall song feel, and their part can determine whether your hardcore thrash thing is actually a country song.

As for the actual issue in this thread, with the internet being what it is, there's no need for you guys to write together, to expect people to come up with their parts from the start. If someone writes a riff, chord progression or a full song they can record it and email for everyone to work on for next practice. Works well with my bands. That way practice time is used for practice, not writing.
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Old 09-04-2012, 12:09 AM   #28
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We've come to the conclusion to fire him, as soon as we find someone else, and we aren't going to tell him in case he gets off his arse and becomes drummer-jesus in the interim. Sure, probably a dick move, and I hate dick moves, but he hasn't written anything to my established pieces and its been longer than I thought - We first recruited him in May or something. He hasn't been seen for like three weeks at practice and then he's in my class straight after, present.
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Old 09-04-2012, 03:33 AM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spaztikko
He hasn't been seen for like three weeks at practice and then he's in my class straight after, present.


Yep that's a good enough reason to fire him, he's already pretty much quit.
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Old 09-04-2012, 05:11 AM   #30
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Yep I would agree. Whilst looking for a new drummer you can always Big Black it.

During the writing process your drummer and bass player should be working to together to get the bounce of the song right. This is the bit that will move the crowd. My process is to come up with a bare basics of a song, the chords, basic melody and working lyrics, we then play through it a few times so that each member can work out their basic parts, recording it. The band members take that away and work out more detail parts ready for next session where we go throught it again adding in the more detailed parts, repeat time and time again until the song is complete. this way there shouldnt be any one member not doing anything at a song writing session. Sure the first few plays throughs of a new song and going to sound very basic as each person hasnt had time to get their parts down pat but it soon all comes together.
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Old 09-04-2012, 06:00 AM   #31
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I dont actually have a bassist, instead experimenting with a guy on piano and ideally always running through ableton, using vsts and the like (it helps he is an electro producer as well), to, you know, give originality. Its a cool challenge. The drummer just isn't working though, so yeah.
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Old 09-06-2012, 03:55 AM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AlanHB
....The pairing of a drummer and bassist is integral to any band if you want it to have any sort of pulse or movement.....

Agree.... but the point I was making (albeit oversimplified a tad) was that the drummer needs a template to work with...where the changes happen...where the bridge is... where the 8 fingered tapping happens etc....
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Old 09-17-2012, 08:49 AM   #33
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Its not practice. Its songwriting. You and the other guitarist should do songwriting in your own time and leave practice time for practice. Imagine how you would feel if you spent your free time lugging your gear somewhere just to watch two other guys scratch their heads, look at each other, and ask "what should we do here?"

Sorry to be harsh bro.... work on polishing full songs at practice... not songwriting...




Exactly what that guy said. Theres no right or wrong way to do it but for me any chemistry I ever had with my bands was when the guitar player laid out the songs for me and I come up with some beats influenced from that.

I can come up with beats just randomly based off of my personal influences but I used to try that with my older guitar players and they could never write songs based off of a beat. The only people I have known that ever could were 2 guys I collaborated with on ultimate guitar.

I feel like the guitar player is the most important aspect of the band. Without the riffs you don't have much of an idea. I also play some guitar im working on a solo album and even I have to write out all the riffs before I think about touching the drum kit or it doesn't flow.

The next time this dude hauls his kit to practice I suggest being ready to show him new songs. If you are just doing improv it probably wont flow and only sound like noise.

In my last band my guitar player would get together with the other guitar player without me and teach him the songs. Thay way when they had the material down and I was jamming with them I had a lot of fresh ideas as opposed to playing random shit and not knowing what they are gonna do next.
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Old 09-17-2012, 09:26 AM   #34
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I don't think it is fair or reasonable to expect the drummer to contribute to songwriting. Some people are songwriters, some aren't. The fact that the songwriting process bores him doesn't make him a bad drummer.

The bigger issue is that he's not showing up all the time, but that's obviously connected here. You guys need to decide in advance, "Are we doing songwriting today or are we doing practice?" and let him know - if he doesn't want to contribute to songwriting, don't try to force him to be there.

That way, he can know what he's in for when he shows up, and he can make an informed decision.
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Old 09-17-2012, 11:32 AM   #35
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Originally Posted by HotspurJr
I don't think it is fair or reasonable to expect the drummer to contribute to songwriting. Some people are songwriters, some aren't. The fact that the songwriting process bores him doesn't make him a bad drummer.

The bigger issue is that he's not showing up all the time, but that's obviously connected here. You guys need to decide in advance, "Are we doing songwriting today or are we doing practice?" and let him know - if he doesn't want to contribute to songwriting, don't try to force him to be there.

That way, he can know what he's in for when he shows up, and he can make an informed decision.

Yeah, typically the drummer has to have a set idea to come up with his beats. Many drummers can help with arrangement, but some are destined to just drum. In my band, we write and arrange the songs, and give them to the drummer, who comes up with his beats, or learns the ones we wrote, depending on the song.
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Old 09-18-2012, 01:01 AM   #36
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I know you seem to have already made up your mind about firing him but I'll give my opinion anyways. First off I am a drummer, and I am in a band. Let me first ask you this, has he been in a band before? I've played with several people who were great players but had never played in a band before, and just like your drummer, they had no idea how to write with other people, it's a harder skill to learn than you'd think.

So you say he doesn't play his drums when you are writing? So then when does he play the drums? When does he come up with his drum parts? He has to be doing some sort of playing other than just playing the song for the first time at a gig. I would definitely speak with him first. You really have to understand that drums are a different animal. It's hard to work out a drum part when the guitarists are trying to talk to each other. Or when the guitarists are working out their parts and trying to piece together the song, ya there isn't much for the drummer to do at that time.

What I try to do is to just help be another decision maker when writing. I'll try to tell the other guys, this sounds good, maybe do this here, that there etc. Then really not until the entire song is pieced together do I start playing drums with everyone. And no I don't really spend a lot of time writing my drum parts. I pretty much just listen to the guitar and bass as they are writing it, get the feel and tempo down, and then play the song all the way through. And usually I won't change much from what I did originally. So what I'm saying is I can kind of see his point about not having much to do while you guys are writing.

I would talk to him and say that you want him to help make decisions about how the song will be pieced together, it's actually really good to get a drummer perspective on the song, instead of just the guitarists who may miss some stuff the drummer might catch. But anyways, talk to him, don't be an ass about it, and really stress that you need him to contribute more or else.
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Old 09-20-2012, 09:22 PM   #37
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I forgot to post back. We fired him, we agreed we fired him and felt that rather than keeping him and waiting around for someone else we ask a bro to take an indefinitely temporary position until we feel he and the other guitarist won't esplode each other or find someone else. It could turn out ideal, or esplosion, and this guy writes drum parts and stuff, and he works really well.
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Old 09-21-2012, 04:02 AM   #38
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Despite my espousing the opposite view.... I wish you and the band all the best. Hope it works out
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Old 09-21-2012, 04:23 PM   #39
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Well, I haven't worked with many musicians, but I believe that most (good) drummers help arrange songs, write drum fills, and help with lyrics. Also, some drummers may play other instruments so they can help out with guitar/bass parts.

Now, if your other guitarist and you are the primary songwriters, you should write music on your own time without the drummer there.
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Old 09-22-2012, 07:03 AM   #40
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It's pretty simple really, the rest of the band write the music and the melody while the drummer writes the beats that accompanies them.

Now, fair enough, you may consider that you've done your drummer's job for him by telling him what time singature the song is in, but there's a lot more to drumming than just following a basic time signature.
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